What do you think of the new "old" crew of the Enterprise?

If this movie is going to be the launching point for a new Trek series with all this we are seeing so far, then

Fuck, I'd have a boner if they had KITT running the 1701.

Better than that kerplunk! shit they came up with in that S2 TNG epsiode - evolution was it?

I dunno, I can see some sort of logic in the engineering hull's shape. Like, you've got the main barrel, and then it tapers off into the part that holds up the nacelle struts.

And the nacelles are bulky because, well, they still need to be bulky. Miniaturization or whatever is an ongoing process. They still need room for bulky cables and sensors and cooling units and what-have-you. (Still reminds me of muscle/sports cars. )

Well, yeah. I'll agree, it wouldn't be credible. But, again, it could be worse--if he were, say, a "rebel bad-boy" of whatever rank who recently got court-martialled and then presented with command of the shiny new pride of Starfleet.







. . . Er.

Cadet Kirk could wind up temporarily taking command of Enterprise, then handing it back to Pike when the emergency is over. CAPTAIN Kirk would then take actual command some years later, after a few years experience had passed.

Which would be fine...but how do you account for Sulu, Chekov, and Uhura all being officers while Kirk is a cadet?

Uhura and Sulu I personally would be willing to allow (in the abstract, at least). It's not like they're being passed over in favor of Kirk--they aren't even in command track yet, right?

I can buy Uhura and Kirk being the same age, but Sulu is clearly a younger man than Kirk (at least in TOS). And Chekov is younger still.

Oh, man...this is really starting to bug me. They've seriously messed up the chronology. By the new film's reckoning Kirk and Chekov have to be about the same age.

Well he did save a planet. We call it Earth.

On top of that everyone in the whole freaking galaxy probably thinks he should have stayed as a Captain of a Starship.

As an admiral the other admirals didn't like him going after their daughters and certainly the cadets and lower ranking officers didn't like it either. Best to get him back in deep space where he can boldly fuck new aliens instead of their daughters.

If true it would be worse then Crusher territory. Say what you want about Wesley Crusher but he never got anywhere near a command much less an XO spot.

How about we watch the movie and see how it all plays out BEFORE we all cry "JJ Abrams raped my childhood!"

You know what? This begins to remind me of Enterprise.

No no, not at all. You are asuming facts not in evidence about when they joined Starfleet and elapsed time. Yelsin is 19, I think - Pine is 29.I don't think there will be the remotest implication that they are the same age. I don't think we can even assume that Kirk is anything like a cadet when Bones maneuvers him on-board Enterprise Kirk may well have served elsewhere and gone as far as Lt. Commander and then for whatever reason be in trouble or demoted or whatever as he comes aboard.

Hell, it fits the "bad boy" meme if he advanced to near-command rank and then fucked it up by disobeying orders or something - it would explain Spock initial reaction to him and his unhappiness with the idea of Kirk having any authority and so forth.

Such a supposition would make WAY more sense than the idea he and Checkov are the same age.

Oh, and it needs a sweet ass spoiler.

It's not a movie for the fans. I think y'all need to keep this in mind - the movie is not made to please us, it's made to please a newer audience. The whole thing is gonna have a modern vibe that all "classicists," if you will, won't like.

And if the new audience likes the new Trek, a new series will start that is not made for the old-series fans. So we might not watch it.

It sucks, but they can't keep making old stuff the old way forever.

I'll give this movie a try as something that's not Trek. I'll watch it for the action and the shiny lights and such.

My view of things on Trekmovie.com and the response of Robert Orci, one of 2 writers of the new film.

Robert Orci's response...

Have a look here for additional views of Rich Sternbach and the designer of the latest effort.

As Marvin would say, I think it's ghastly!!

But then they might surprise us, and have the crew do an emergency evacuation of the main hull and blow it up and allow the saucer to land. Where as the next movie would have a main hull more in line with the series/original movies.

Or I could be really wishful thinking on this.

Then some cadets are 15 year olds and others are 25? What kind of academy works like that? And why would a cadet of equal experience get command simply because he's older?

Even if they aren't the same age, it seems clear that--in the film--Kirk is a cadet and Chekov is an officer. THAT JUST DOES NOT FIT.

The synopsis I read is that the graduating cadets are assigned to ships--McCoy to the Enterprise, for instance--but that Kirk is not given an assignment, so McCoy infects him with a virus and uses a medical regulation loophole to bring Kirk onto Enterprise with him. It seems clear that the established crew--Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, Spock, everyone but Scotty--are already assigned to Enterprise.

See, that would work. Sortof a Jim Kirk-as-Tom Paris re-invention, but at least it would fit the chronology: Kirk got bounced out of/resigned from Starfleet after some career disaster he had on the Farragut, only to get an opportunity for redemption when on board Enterprise years later. That could've worked...

If he and Chekov are not the same age, then cadets' ages are all over the map. That does not square with what we've seen of Starfleet Academy.

Well, you're no fun

Mature students? I couldn't see something like Starfleet Academy being bothered about age, when talent and ability would be what it seeks.

A talented middled aged cadet with life experience would be a much more valuable asset than a clueless teenager, the latter they have to mould into an adult, the former's there and needs to adapt to Starfleet.

Girl get something straight. Ain't nothing wrong with a reboot but if the movie sucks then that's it. There won't be any more future movies.

Right now it is screaming suckage to such a degree that it's not even funny.

It's hard to imagine 15 year olds being competitive with 25 year olds in the same classes.

Maybe the 23rd Century is different, but I think the different maturity levels of the cadets would be hard to manage.

I guess that's an explanation, but I don't like it. It still leaves out Kirk's past on the Republic and the Farragut.

All else aside - do you realize what you said here? Since when is "fitting with what we've seen" even on the table for this film?

Anyway, I decided to go back and read that whole article and parse out some details, taking each point as I come to it:

Iowa? Does it say so on screen or does the writer assume this? If Starfleet Academy is in Iowa then you can pretty much throw out anything you thought you knew about the academy.

If in fact it isn't in Iowa after all, then Kirk hanging around nearby becomes more significant...

Why would Kirk have a "grasp of the subject" if he's never been in Starfleet? Even the family member of a Starfleet captain shouldn't have that impressive a knowledge (at least in a fictional universe where you paint with broad strokes)

Are they cadets? or is this another assumption? Maybe there's simply a different uniform for when you are wating for your assignment and you are planetside.

Several possibilities here:
a. Kirk is the same age as, or older than Sulu and thus would be starting his career later. It would still not be impossible for a prodigy to pass Sulu on the promotion chain (since he is "genius level")
b. Kirk has been in and washed out for some reason but can't let go and go home. This would account for him being older and maybe for him being a step ahead of being a "freshman" when he started again
c. the writer hears Pike say "join Starfleet" and assumes the "academy"

The use of the word "midwest" in the quote does rule out California (or Paris or wherever) as a location - so either it's not the Academy at all but perhaps some kind of training facility, or you can forget all assumptions about the Academy.

Be an officer in four years might mean something other than "graduate in four years"

A shuttle for "recruits"? Why would there be a shuttle for "recruits" LEAVING the Academy? And why would Kirk need to be on it?

And we have no description of the time gap covered by the cut....but unless we are to assume the shipyard is also in Iowa, there has to be SOME elapsed time.

In point of fact, the Kirk we see on the motorcycle MIGHT already by a Lt. Commander or something.

Which seems to be belied by this....so the shipyard is in Iowa too?

And Enterprise is still under construction? And you have to take a shuttle to get to "the Academy"? And Kirk speaks of seven years...will it actually be seven years before we see him boarding the Enterprise?

Frankly, either the script or the description of the scene is such a jumbled mess you can't possibly reconcile all the "wtf?" moments.

I have a hard time trusting this.

Clip 2 next

Only because of your preconceived notions, which you can't be rid of no matter how hard you try.

I'm just going to ignore spoilers and wait for the movie to come out (or at least the first reviews on RottenTomatoes).

Maybe Kirk was an officer and he resigned his commission over a disagreement. Maybe he's been relieved pending some disciplinary action. I mean, everyone is assuming that because he's got a black shirt on, he's a cadet. Someone already pointed out that: 1) the cadet uniform is significantly different than a black shirt and 2) everyone else's uniform is a V-necked colored shirt over a black shirt. If Kirk is an actual officer but he's been relieved or has resigned or something, he could've taken off his overshirt that shows his rank--a lot like in the westerns/cop shows where the "loose cannon" turns in his badge until he fixes things.

Maybe in early TOS episodes, Kirk was some by-the-book career man, but definitely "The Trouble With Tribbles" and all the Meyer movies have him as much more of a loose cannon.

Hell, speaking of which, why isn't Kirk in a uniform for the movie?

Another thing - the Federation is not a peacekeeping armada. That'd be Starfleet. Pike shouldn't be saying anything as stupid as that.

So Abrams description says "immediately" but is this immediately after joining or immediately what we see next in the film (which could be senior year? Even later in Kirk's career?)

Again, the implication is these are straight out of Academy - ensigns? - but do we know this? it certainly doesn't make any sense.

Strong implication of youth here.

Laying aside the idea of the NAVIGATOR addressing the ship....and the fact that there's no logic in a distress signal on Vulcan promoting an investigation of events in TNZ....how is it that a veteran Starship Captain who served with the senior Kirk doesn't recognize the events Kirk recognizes?

(BTW - doesn't the whole "attack on Vulcan" thig kind of undermine the idea that the time traveling was just to get Kirk? Aren't there more direct ways to do that?)

Or possibly have an unpleasant history which would perhaps again speak to a gap in time?

So Kirk, who was just being born, knows about the anomoly but Pike, who was IN Starfleet and potentially on board the ship nero attacked previously DOESN'T? And Kirk KNOWS that the events (whatever they may be) on Vulcan are a direct consiquence of this same phenomena when, the last time it happened, dude attacked one particular ship? He knows this how?

Other than Abrams commentary, I don't get the sense that these events necessarily HAVE to be happening right out of the Academy. I also am more and more mistified that Nimoy was impressed with this script.

Maybe he really does want Trek killed off and he's acting as a double agent?

It's... huge. Like, twice the size it used to be, or else the shuttlebay doors and shuttles have shrunk 50%.

I don't think the neck is necessarily too far back... sort of something in between an Oberth and an Excelsior.

The more I hear, the more I think this movie is going to suck ASS.

Not saying I won't squander $8 on it so I can participate in the discussions, but I'm resigning myself to the fact that TOS canon is going to live in the 60's and the first couple of movies, and there's no relating the current shit to the old glory.

RIP

Clip 3

"Pisses Spock off"? Spock is so emotional he'll beam a guy down to an ice planet and LEAVE him? This HAS to be before Kirk is on the Enterprise. (since there's no realistic way these things happen AFTER Nero attacks Vulcan) and again, it implies both that Kirk and Spock have an unpleasant history, and that there is some (possibly considerable) elapsed time between the Academy sequence and the "boarding the Enterprise" stuff. (since the ruse to get Kirk on-board is followed immediately by the news from Vulcan)

I'm assuming this is a liberal use of the word since I doubt Starfleet "exiles" their officers. It doesn't seem to be very clear where "here" is.

How does the Enterprise even come up in this conversation?

The WHAT now?

If Kirk needs to be beamed onto the Enterprise then either this happens AFTER the attack on Vulcan (and - among other things - this is crazy because how does Spock get to exile Kirk after Kirk was RIGHT about the attack?) Conversely, if this happens BEFORE the attack on Vulcan then McCoy's ruse was not Kirk's first time on the Enterprise. This latter possibility is more satisfying given the "rapid promotion" point we were talking about.

And now we flip back to the other position....if Spock is in Command, then this MUST be after the attack on Vulcan. Eye-yi-yi-yi-yi

Not that this isn't a feel good moment but still...