What has improved since 2008?

Right he became president in 2009. How's have his economic policies worked out for us so far?

I'm not saying they've worked out at all. I'm just saying that the RE market crash can't have been his fault because he wasn't president at the time. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Since 2008 K1A's remaining lifespan has gotten three years shorter, which is a completely unambiguously good thing.

From a U.S. political and socioeconomic point of view, mostly things just haven't gotten worse as quickly as they would have if morons K1A would vote for were in charge of the Senate and Presidency. The morons in charge of those branches aren't quite as moronic as K1A wants them to be. Had he won with a Republican takeover of the Senate, President McCain would be bombing Vancouver with molotov cocktails out of a dinghy by now to distract the nation from 20% unemployment and bounced Social Security checks.

Alright then.

Shit, man. Said it two or three times (once in an edit, so you may have missed it).

Home prices in 'double dip'

^All that fuckin red line shit falls at the Current Shithead's feet. Obama mismanagement is Bush on steriods, then adrenalin, then some other super duper accelerant.

I quit trying to keep up with your edits about half a dozen of them ago.

Bump. Still waiting on this.

Taxes are at their lowest levels in decades.

I don't see an economic recovery. And a more robust economy is not going to fix the issue with the housing market, the housing market isn't in the shitter because houses are too expensive, it's in the shitter because the supply of houses far exceeded their demand, and still do.

They're not permanent. Obama's made it clear 'Bush cuts' will be replealed if within his power. Why I said "permanent" tax cuts. People have to be able to plan around them. Like the 2% payroll tax reduction, most people treat it like the windfall it is, not an actual pay increase.

That's a fair dig, though you must have seen the words "double dip" more than once by now.

And my last reply had no edits.

Any comment about the double dip being owned by Obama not Bush?

Waiting on what? An answer to "how do we cut programs" when I've already said "reform, not cut"?

Is the second dip totally unrelated to the first dip? Did it have anything to do with the foreign markets? Did it have anything to do with the backlog of forclosures caused during the paperwork snafoo? Doesn't a second dip imply an increase in the market beforehand? Were we talking about the second dip to begin with?

I would argue the housing market is in the shitter not because supply exceeds demand but largely because so many people are unemployed, underemployed, or unsure they're going to get laid off so they're deferring on buying. Of those that do want to buy, banks are now so skittish that it is near impossible for a lot of people to get credit to buy.

Personally, I desperately want to buy a $250,000 house a lot closer into town, but with my current income even if I could get a loan I wouldn't want to take that risk. Besides, I've got to rebuild my retirement fund, my rainy day fund, save up for expenditures I've deferred on (bottom grille for my car, dental implant, knee surgery, motorcycle repairs, second motorcycle, etc), and get together down payment money.

People want to buy homes, but they are in to position to in our current uncertain, stagnant, depressed economy.

^^Is the second dip totally unrelated to the first dip?

Real estate market double dips are rarer than a frugal bureaucrat, or gagamet replying on substance without dissembling. They just don't happen.


Did it have anything to do with the foreign markets?

Nope, not enough foeigners buying US houses except at the highest-end.

Did it have anything to do with the backlog of forclosures caused during the paperwork snafoo?

That theory's been repudiated.

Doesn't a second dip imply an increase in the market beforehand?

So Obama gets credit for the "recovery" but then must accept the blame for the crash. Pretty much the point.


Were we talking about the second dip to begin with?


Because a recovering RE market turned downward again in 2011, as fully owned by Obama as Obamacare.

You said "Bush's fault". So I explained "not quite".

Is that a yes or a no?

Are you suggesting that the RE markets in different countries aren't interconnected?

I must have missed said repudiation.

Chart says yep.

Is that a yes or a no?

I never once said it was Bush's fault.

Are these rhetorical questions, looking to obfuscate, or are you actually looking for answers?

If the latter, before answering I should point out that, while I am not Harry Truman's biggest fan, one witticism I enjoy that is attributed to him is that he wished he had a one-armed economist--"because economists always say 'on the one hand...on the other hand.'"

So yeah. Really, recessions end. As resilient as the US economy is, a baby monkey riding backwards on a pig could "get" America out of a recession in two years.

But indecisive leadership, intrusive government, and expensive regulations creating a drag on business has slowed/halted the recovery. Long-term unemployed have run out of money and can't afford to keep their homes. Underemployed people can't afford to buy homes. I would submit to you that Dubya never should've passed TARP and The Beast never should've passed Porkulus, Obamacare, and bought out GM and Chrysler. Some of these things (not Obamacare) may have minimized the severity of the crash, but they also prevented any kind of recovery.

Sorry, forgot where I was.

I should've just chucked a turd and been done with it.

This all started with me asking how the real estate market crashing before Obama was ever president is his fault, and after all the bullshit that followed you have the balls to suggest that I'M trying to obfuscate?

Bush left office.

No, an answer to under what circumstances you think it's legitimate for someone to be in favor of cuts.

Who's the someone? Who else's program do they want cut?

If it wasn't within his power to let them expire last year, what makes you think it'll ever be in his power to repeal them?

Yeah, but things actually managed to get worse.

I dunno, we're moving away from being involved in the wars he got us stuck in.

Like Libya?

And into others. And you're smoking something good if you think all the troops will be out of Iraq or Afghanistan before Obama leaves office, regardless of whether that's in 2013 or 2017.

To be fair, it's better than the Obama dual. So for now, I'll pretend that this one's legit

DD&B, as usual. You know damn well it doesn't matter who, nor what the specific programs are.

Ohhh, Jeezus...

This is what I get for putting people on "ignore". C'mon, Timbo: Y'know you wanted to say "He got us out of Iraq and Afghanistan." Only He hasn't. Bush started the drawdown plan for Iraq--after winning it--although that hasn't happened yet, and we're nowhere near getting out of Afghanistan. Furthermore, we've started a war with Libya. And the Obama Administration has been doing its damndest to create a failed state on our southern border by smuggling guns to Mexican drug cartels. You've really got the gall to imply He's better than Bush?

OK. "Rhetorical" it is. I'll stop bothering you. John is a pretty nice guy. I'm sure you two can work out some kind of rotation where you can get plenty of tongue time on the Obama's asshole.