WTF is the point to being a Christian??

I brought this up to Dayton a bunch of times, and got the usual from him, so let's discuss this this in a thread.

What is the fucking point?

Apparently, you can lie, cheat, steal, bully, wife beat, and just be an all around piece of shit, and still claim to be a Christian.

Hell, you can fucking kill people.
You need a big fat excuse, like war, or "standing your ground", but you can kill.
'Til the cows come home, you can kill.

And you can cheer on killers by jacking off to war and state executions.

WTF do you have to do to get kicked out of this club?

Oh, wait, no, I forgot, if you jack off while thinking about a guy, that seems to get you into all sorts of trouble.

But other than that, you can pretty much be the exact same miserable asshole as everyone else.

So how in the fuck does Christianity make the world better?
So much so, that its adherents act morally superior?
I'm not seeing it.

You big silly! It's not about making this world better - it's about getting a place at the endless buffet in the next world.

Riiiiight.

That's got to be it, especially for people like Dayton.

Just yesterday I was doing some yard work at my mom's house and got to visit with one of her sisters. Most of my mom's side of the family is of the fundy Christian persuasion (three of my aunt's four sons are either preachers or missionaries) and while I don't subscribe to their beliefs, to a person they're kind, peaceful, and empathetic people.

While I was doing the work, the thought crossed my mind: With his inability to empathize with others, Dayton's only reason for claiming to be Christian must be because he fears punishment if he doesn't.

Reminds me of the Ray Wylie Hubbard song, "Conversation with the Devil".

Some get spiritual 'cause they see the light
And some 'cause they feel the heat

If Hamlet hadn't been a Christian, he'd never have gotten killed. In the play, Hamlet comes across his uncle in prayer, confessing to murdering Hamlet's father and asking for forgiveness. Hamlet spares his life, because Hamlet doesn't want his uncle to go to Heaven after Hamlet kills him, so he decides to wait, figuring that his uncle will commit some other sin and Hamlet will kill him before he confesses and asks for forgiveness. Of course, it doesn't turn out that way, exactly.

Had Hamlet been an atheist, or simply unconcerned with what happened to his uncle after he was dead, he could have whacked him, taken the throne, married Ophelia, and lived happily ever after. Instead, he decided to be greedy, and paid for it with his life, and the lives of those that he loved. A lesson for us all, I think.

I offer up George Carlin and Stephen Fry...





...who effectively illustrate the man made qualities of religion. If the Bible were a movie script it'd be ridiculed for plot-holes, illogical events and inconsistencies.

Why be a Christian (or any other religion for that matter)? There are a number of reasons. For some it is to have a comfort blanket. A delusion driven shield to wear as one passes through life. For some it is to adapt a story and set of ideas for selfish purposes, such as the justification for actions and opinions. For some it is the exploitation of the weak minded, such as the aforementioned comfort blanket variety. For some it is a way to make money. But whatever critical analysis you perform, it seems to me that choosing to following a religion is never simply "because you can" as religion is an enabler of other states of being.

That's the part that's an alien planet to me.
That just seems like the ultimate level of giving up.
To cross that threshold, you basically have to get on your knees, and go "I forsake reason, and give it all over to magic".
I don't have that in me, I'd truly rather die.

I just can't get past eternal damnation. The whole concept of it is the complete opposite of "love". I just can't see how you can do great things for the world in god's name when that same god could send anybody to hell. Hitler, yeah he was evil but eternal damnation? And it's not like it's going to rehabilitate him since his life has ended. Actually when judgement day comes (and zombie Hitler is judged guilty and thus sentenced to damnation) the world has ended. So what's the point of punishing everyone? Why drag out old memories?

You're assuming that someone like Hitler didn't ask for forgiveness before they died. If he did, and was sincere about it, then he doesn't have to worry about Hell at all.

Hitler was raised Catholic, and Catholics have the ultimate Get Out of Jail Free card. It's called a "perfect act of contrition." As he bit down on the cyanide capsule, all he had to do was say, or even think, "O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my sins and determine to sin no more."

Didn't even need a priest around.

Here's an old blog post I did on exactly the whole Hitler in Hell scenario.

http://dickynoo.blogspot.com/2009/03/why-whole-hell-idea-perturbs-me.html

Well, that's what makes them weak minded.

To me its no different from that certain type of person who goes to, say, a a doctor or a lawyer and asks for advice. If the advice isn't what they want to hear they go to someone else for a second opinion in the hope that they will be given assurances that all will be well. Hell, I had one client just like that this week who has decided to go back to his old (and incompetent) lawyer because his case wasn't the strongest and I was telling it to him how it was, rather than just telling him what he wants to hear so that I could earn some money. But for that client it's all part of the act of denial, and that applies equally to the comfort blanket variety. It is the act putting off harsh realities for as long as possible, and religion gets away with it since they don't have to face that harsh reality until they're six feet under.

Gotta love those loopholes!

Sounds like my mother-in-law when it comes to doctors. Every time she says "that doctor doesn't know what he's talking about. I've never heard of that!" she refuses to follow the advice and discourages others from following the advice if applicable. Let's see here: HS diploma, zero medical background and reads nothing but romance novels and only watches trash TV - versus a MEDICAL DEGREE and actively working in the medical field with an ever expanding knowledge base. That's a "no brainer."

Christianity has never been primarily about making the world a better place.

It is about saving the souls of people.

Get some new material.

Which souls would they be? The fictional ones that have no scientific grounding whatsoever?

What evidence do you have they are "fictional"?

Present a soul, and I'll get right on picking it apart, and drawing diagrams for ya.

I know, I really need to keep up with all the new volumes the Bible writers are churning out these days.

Don't I know it.

So, being an asshole on WF, good, domestic abuse, good, swearing in Red Room = bound for Hell.

Yeah, that's...that's something.

Dumbest question of the year. "Chup, tell me, what evidence do you have that an untruth is untrue??"

What is the opposite of fiction? Fact. What do I need to satisfy me of fact? Evidence. In the absence of evidence then fact becomes fiction. So there's your answer.

I have never claimed either of those were "good".

But a Christian can be forgiven for both.

So @Dayton3 thinks it dumb that evidence is required for something to be fact.

Ok, here's a question for you Kitchens. Assuming that you are consistent, you must believe that people like Diacanu and I have souls even though we do not subscribe to your dogma. So how would we know we have these souls? Where do we look for them?

And what are the limits for what can be forgiven?

Have you checked behind the couch?

IIRC you have to have faith. According to the Bible faith is the "substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen".

How do you know "love" exists El Chup? Can you isolate it or manage it? That is only one example.

By the way, a Christian friend of Carl Sagans used that exact same challenge on him.

It is my understanding that there is only one "unpardonable sin". And there is lots of debate about that. It isn't murder or any kind of physical act against another though.

Everything, since apparently its conditional on you having to file a petition with the resident Christian to stand a chance of getting it.....

Well, that kinda defeats all your whining about behavior in Red Room, doesn't it?
If God can forgive me, shouldn't you?