Yo Beck grow a brain

In two different threads you've opined that if the Reich had not declared war on the USA "most of the world" would today be flying the swastika, singing the horst wessel song etc.

This is bull shit. I corrected you on it in one thread thusly: http://www.wordforge.net/showthread.php?p=1936655&highlight=bitch#post1936655

And you went right on and posted the same BS on another thread.

Nazism is fundamentally irrational and unstable. Even avoiding specific mistakes, others would have been made before long.

^ The same can be said of the Soviet system. Yet they destroyed half of Europe for two generations...

China is still commie and still going.

Indeed for all the talk of Sino/US "economic interdependence" all the signs are that there's going to be another big ole cold war over the next few decades, with the US reprising its role and China taking up the USSR's.

The fact that the Reich was doomed has nothing to do with its functioning as a political/economic system, but it has everything to do with the fact that it invaded Russia. It was a bit like a random guy on the street walking up behind Mike Tyson and blindsiding him with a punch to the head. It might look good for Mr. Random for a few seconds as Mike falls down from the punch, but when he gets back up...

Maybe you and Beck could flirt with buttsex in a fucking PM.

Only nominally so.

I take Async's point too, although I'd note that the Soviet Union at least moderated somewhat following its Stalinist extremes.

Fixed that for ya.

Did Beck illustrate his point on a chalkboard like he usually does?

In this case, have to agree with you. Hitler and his brand of government (ultrafanatical dictatorship/idol worship) was already well on his way to self-destruction. The only debatable part is whether national socialism would've gotten off the ground there without his cult of personality to kick-start it.

Militarily alone, he cut his own throat pretty darned well.

Yeah, he could have retreated from Stalingrad and cut his losses, for instance. It was strategically not that important to hold the city. But even a relatively minor temporary setback was abhorrent to Nazi ideology - Hitler and cohorts were unable to admit that they could be defeated by those they considered subhuman.

Actually, socialism is going stronger than communism.
With more countries as well.

Well, their supposed superiority, not only as an ideology but as a "race," was kind of what their whole movement was about. Admitting defeat was unthinkable. It's no wonder Hitler refused to do it even when defeat was very literally inevitable, and finally committed suicide rather than face up to it.

Read "The Plot Against America" by Philip Roth. 2004

A brilliant novel. Lindbergh is President and negotiates an 'understanding' with Hitler.

I don't think it was Nazi ideology that held Hitler, though. More the other way around. Hitler used Nazi ideology to hold everyone else to him. He was maniacally devoted to having everyone fanatically devoted to him. Every setback was also a personal, crushing defeat. Hitler's irrationality was the number one reason he didn't take Europe. There are many others, but without that one, the rest don't have time to germinate.

Definitions are so important...

All right.

You go to China and try to start an alternative political party and run for office.

Good luck finding anyone to sell you life insurance.

Just because they're a single-party state doesn't mean they're commies. They have scores of billionaires for crying out loud.

If you want to live in a poor shithole just move to the most socialist place you can find.

If you only want to live in a part-shithole, than pick a place less socialist.

if you want to live in the place that is the least of a shithole than just pick the least socialist place you can live.

In rough terms, think venezuela, france and the US.

[Assuming of course you don't live in the worst shitholes which often won't even let you move out to a lesser shithole.]

Your theory completely ignores the significant Lend-Lease aid that the United States provided to the Soviet Union, or the opening of a second-front in Africa and Italy by 1943. Not to mention the round-the-clock bombing that the US and UK started up in 1943.

I'm not saying the Third Reich had the resources to completely conquer the Soviet Union, or even any other part of the world (their conquests were largely the result of then innovative tactics and sheer cunning, not logistical and strategic capability), but to say that the USSR was anything but desperate for help during the first years of the war is naivety.

Commie gov't, capitalist economic system. Even they know Socialism is a fucking failure of the first order. They're just trying to hang onto power with their fingernails.

I don't see how your rebuttal is in any way indicative of an imminent German defeat. A retreat, is not a necessarily a "We lost the war. Let's go home." If Hitler had not been given two fronts to fight on, it's my assertion that in time he would have taken Russia. It would have probably been years but Russia really only had the same resources they had during the tsarist period: men and guns. Their protection was the brutal Russian winter, but in time (supposing the Soviets hadn't developed the bomb by then) German and Euro draftees would have eventually captured Moscow and Leningrad. His mistake was going after Russia before conquering the British.

I'm also honored to finally have a thread dedicated just to me. :lovelovelove:

Nothing you said can be considered true.

Yep. If it wasn't for lend lease it's a good bet the Soviets would have been up shits creek. All the Soviet tanks in the world don't mean squat if you can't supply them.

In fact I've read (can't remember where) that US trucks were in such demand that they simply drove them to the front. They didn't even bother to take off the American markings.

And that's just in trucks. We supplied many more other items with which made the Soviets life easier in fighting the Germans.

What the fuck does that even mean?

Wrong. The industrial output of the Soviet economy had multiplied since the first war.

It means that Captain J is profoundly retarded.

Not to mention that the bit about "going after Russia before conquering the British" is eejitry as well.

Hitler did try taking Britain, the result was an arse kicking for the Reich. Ever heard of the Battle of Britain? The reason it was fought was because the Germans correctly realised there would be no hope of a successful invasion of Britain while the RAF remained largely functionally intact. So they tried to trash the RAF, as the first stage of a planned takeover of the UK. They also tried "softening up" Britain in general during this period with bombing of cities - the Blitz.

But they fell at the first hurdle because the RAF kicked the Luftwaffe's teeth in. Having failed to achieve air superiority, an invasion was impossible.

Even if they had removed the RAF it would only be the first stage. They'd have to eradicate the RN as well. Their plans for invasion involved using Rhine river barges... to ferry troops across the channel! One of the dumbest ideas ever, they would have easily been swamped simply by the wake of a British destroyer.

I am surprised to see a considerable lack of Americans in this thread. I mean, they were single handedly responsible for it's outcome, right? RIGHT????