Well, obviously you don't have a lot of arguments. Fortunately for you, this thread is fucked anyway or your 'discussing' with me would have earned you, like, three warnings
My observations: 1. Generally, the mods and admins do a good job. Sure mistakes are made. But overall, there is a high level of respect for the vast majority of the posters by the mods and admins. I see it going on in A51. They really do listen, consider and try to do what's right by the board. As an Observer, I really haven't seen too much to complain about. Yes there are problems among the staff, but you will have that with any board. 2. I think the staff could be pared down some. Maybe there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Maybe three supermods and a tech admin or two is all that's needed. 3. Observers? Well, maybe they could be eliminated. Honestly, I sometimes feel we don't contribute that much. I try to offer some views, as I was a moderator and a supermod when RR opened, and I do have some limited experience in the area. I don't know how the other Observers feel, but I wouldn't mind getting fired. If I'm not on staff, then I just don't feel right about having A51 access. I appreciated the offer when it was made to me last summer, but I wonder how useful we are. And I have told Elwood last week, in a fit of utter despair over the latest to cut my A51 access, but he hasn't. Sometimes, being on staff is like living at the Hotel California- you can check out but never leave. 4. Undo the bans except for a select few. Amnesty. Bring back gul, Storm, Crosis, etc. 5. Develop the non-RR forums. WF should be all about the RR although that's the major draw. This place is called WORDforge- maybe more emphasis on writing, literature and the like? Sub-forums in the RR, for religious discussion, political discussion and the like? Maybe a debate forum where flaming is not allowed, a place for more structured and civilized discussion? 6. Bring back the Arena! One-on-One structured debates are a good thing! 7. No White Room. There are some genuine concerns about the minor-age posters having access to porn. Age verification? How reliable is that? 8. Elwood needs to maintain the 3-month A51 release schedule faithfully. The admins did get slack about the delay, but then again, not many posters were asking about it, either. The no DNR is good, except there are some threads where personal info (like email address, real names, IP addresses) are mentioned and those do need to be edited out. Full transparency is not possible, as there will always be some things the staff will discuss some matters among themselves. 9. The really has to stop. The last three weeks very nearly destroyed the board and I'm not exaggerating. I realize some people enjoy stirring the pot and prolonging the for as long as possible, but that's destructive to the board. If we must have threads, they should be relegated/moved to the Help Desk and kept there. Elwood put up with an amazing amount of crap over the past month and I am amazed that he didn't just quit and walk away. He would have been fully justified in doing so. 10. It needs to be realized by all that WF is WF. We are not TK, TBBS, Starscape or any other board. WF will never be like TK, nor should we try to be. You want wide-open, anything-goes posting? Go to Troll Kingdom. You want the best place on the web for Trek geeks? Go to Big Blue. You want general discussion with some degree of moderation? That WF. People have to stop trying to remold WF into a version of Troll Kingdom Junior, or judging WF by TK's standards. We are a unique place, still trying to develop our own unique identity after almost 4 years. WF is still a work in progress. We can't please everyone, nor should we try. If you don't like WF, then there are other boards to participate on.
Shouldn't you be busy gassing people? Germany was having trouble What a sad, sad story Needed a new leader to restore Its former glory Where, oh, where was he? Where could that man be? We looked around and then we found The man for you and me LEAD TENOR STORMTROOPER: And now it's... Springtime for Hitler and Germany Deutschland is happy and gay! We're marching to a faster pace Look out, here comes the master race! Springtime for Hitler and Germany Rhineland's a fine land once more! Springtime for Hitler and Germany Watch out, Europe We're going on tour! Springtime for Hitler and Germany... CHORUS: Look, it's springtime LEAD TENOR STORMTROOPER: Winter for Poland and France CHORUS AND STORMTROOPER: Springtime for Hitler and Germany! CHORUS: Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! Springtime! STORMTROOPER: Come on, Germans Go into your dance! STORMTROOPER "ROLF": I was born in Dusseldorf und that is why they call me Rolf. STORMTROOPER "MEL": Don't be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the Nazi party! ULLA: The Fuhrer is coming, the Fuhrer is coming, the Fuhrer is coming! STORMTROOPER #1: Heil Hitler! STORMTROOPER #2: Heil Hitler! LEAD TENOR STORMTROOPER: Heil Hitler! Springtime for Hitler and Germany ALL: Heil Hitler! ROGER: Heil myself Heil to me I'm the kraut Who's out to change our history Heil myself Raise your hand There's no greater Dictator in the land! Everything I do, I do for you! CHORUS: Yes, you do! ROGER: If you're looking for a war, here's World War Two! Heil myself Raise your beer CHORUS: Jawohl! ROGER: Ev'ry hotsy-totsy Nazi stand and cheer CHORUS: Hooray! Ev'ry hotsy-totsy Nazi... ROGER: Heil myself! CHORUS: Ev'ry hotsy-totsy Nazi... ROGER: Heil myself! CHORUS: Ev'ry hotsy-totsy Nazi... ROGER: ...stand and cheer! THE HEIL-LOs: The Fuhrer is causing a furor! He's got those Russians on the run You gotta love that wacky hun! The Fuhrer is causing a furor They can't say "no" to his demands They're freaking out in foreign lands He's got the whole world in his hands The Fuhrer is causing a furor! ROGER: I was just a paper hanger No one more obscurer Got a phone call from the Reichstag Told me I was Fuhrer Germany was blue What, oh, what to do? Hitched up my pants And conquered France Now Deutschland's smiling through! But it wasn't always so easy... It was 1932. Hindenburg was working the Big Room and I... I was playing the lounge. And then I got my big break. Somebody burned down the Reichstag. And, would you believe it? They made me Chancellor. Chancellor! It ain't no myst'ry If it's politics or hist'ry The thing you gotta know is Ev'rything is show biz Heil myself Watch my show I'm the German Ethel Merman Dontcha know We are crossing borders The new world order is here Make a great big smile Ev'ryone sieg heil to me Wonderful me! And now it's... CHORUS: Springtime for Hitler and Germany Goose-step's the new step today ROGER: Springtime! Goose-steps! CHORUS MEN: Bombs falling from the skies again CHORUS: Deutschland is on the rise again ROGER & CHORUS: Springtime for Hitler and Germany U-boats are sailing once more Springtime for Hitler and Germany ROGER: Means that... CHORUS: Soon we'll be going... ROGER: We've got to be going... CHORUS: You know we'll be going.... ROGER: You bet we'll be going... ROGER & CHORUS: You know we'll be going to war!!
I agree with what Bulldog said, bring back the Arena. That was a good forum to have, because it was basically posters debating each other in a manner 100 times more civilized than the Red Room. I enjoyed proving that Coke was indeed better than Pepsi (though that thread has probably been pruned ). However, instead of limiting the debate threads to two posters at a time, maybe a few more would be better. Debate teams, perhaps? Also, more knowledgeable members could post guidelines for effective debating or coach members on logical fallacies and such things.
I was amazed at how "unjuicy" most of the threads in The Shelter were. I expected high drama and it's mostly "meh".
WTF is wrong with you? Stop acting like an idiot in here. Go rip her a new one or three in the Red Room. It's shit like this that makes it difficult to take anything else you say seriously and undermines anyone else on the same page with you.
If she is going to jack the discussion with her usual "you're all trolls" blather and troll me in the HD, I'm going to hit her right back. It's that simple. If I get warnings for it, so be it. If I get banned for it, so be it. Being here has been nice, and I've met some great people in RL as a result, but it's not my reason d'etre. I have had a full, rich life long before wordforge, still have one, and will coninue to have one long after it's gone. As for folk's listening to me, I have absolutely no faith in the process here at all, at this point, and this thread is already filled with the usual shenanigans and almost pure smoke, so I just don't give a damn anymore.
Sorry. I learned years ago to pick my battles. I've already expended all the energy I'm prepared to on selling this idea. Past experience in trying to sell ideas here shows me that I just wind up wasting a lot of energy to no effect. Again, your board, your prerogative. You asked for opinions, I gave mine. I guess if I feel strongly enough about it, maybe I should start my own board.
Oh, I do have a humble request, in line with my other post: Does anyone have a copy of the Wordforge Mission laying around? I'm almost certain Cassandra made one, but it doesn't seem to be in the FAQ or anywhere.
Despite your amazingly complex, yet detailed, reply, I still don't get your objection. Could you spell out exactly what you disagree with my post?
Why? It doesn't work. Like a good liberal you keep trying to force this down our throats when the marketplace (ie posters) has already spoken.
I spoke by participating in it Speaking of which -- yes, it would be nice if someone got around to updating the random quotes database. I haven't said anything because of more important or attention-consuming matters (upgrading, Techman, dramas) but there ought to be quite a backlog of entries waiting to be authorized by this point.
This is the way I see it... Mods and admins, among their other duties, are supposed to act as mediators at times. How can one act as a mediator if one has shown a lack of impartiality toward one poster or another? Cries of "favoritism" are sure to abound. The rules are not consistent. What gets one person a "friendly" garners another an outright warning. And after everything that went down in the past couple of weeks, with board morale being low, people perceiving their privacy being threatened, claims of a Star Chamber...the first issue that is dealt with is Reputation? Better prioritizing of board issues would be a good way to go.
To everyone requesting a return of the Arena: are you nucking futs? Wordforge works best as a discussion forum, not a debate forum. When we start to think that changing each other's minds should be a commonplace occurrence, this place quickly goes all to hell. The Arena distilled wordforge into Us v. Them and enhanced the vitality of the notion that people who came out of a discussion still not agreeing with you were just not listening or just too dumb to get it. This "debate" v. "discussion" dichotomy shows its worst in staff/membership interactions. A questionable decision is made, argument is had, the decision is stood by, and then the member runs around kicking dirt on the mod, yanking third base out of the ground, and launching the pitcher's rubber into the bleacher seats. The member then publicly whines about a warning until the only way to get the whining to stop is with a ban. If people thought of interactions with staff less as debates and more as discussion, we'd have a much healthier board. A questionable decision (to lock or move a thread/ to edit w/o poster permission/to issue a warning/etc.) would be followed by an airing of grievances and reconsideration. Everyone would just live with the result, which is never so bad in isolated incidents. We don't need to agree except on one thing: we need to agree to disagree a whole hell of a lot more often. Unless you see a real danger to the board somewhere, or unless you see a specific improvement that could be made in posters' attitudes or in board functionality to make this a more enjoyable place, just leave debate by the wayside. It rarely ends well.
The Coliseum didn't amount to much the first time around. It'd be better if you could challenge another member to a one-on-one structured debate in a forum agreed upon.
You'll never get any of that now that the mods now that it's public. It will simply be taken to IM or some other form of private media if it's a controversial subject. There's a BIIIIIG difference between what was in the first release and later releases. You'll never see something like Spaceturkey admitting he lied about why I was banned again. Simply isn't going to happen. Don't expect much on TEH DRAMA either when the time comes. Any serious discussions won't be there. Which completely invalidates the point of releasing those threads. It's simply the illusion of transparency.
Exactly. I can see the need for discussing some board issues in private. I always wondered, after so many BR leaks, why TBBS mods and admins just didn't discuss things offboard. But don't *claim* everything is being revealed, when it really isn't. That's called deception, and doesn't really instill an attitude of trust in the members. Right now it seems A51 threads are disclosed according to staff criteria. That wasn't the original intent. Either disclose all, or state for certain some things are remaining private (aside from RL info).
Of course Elwood could put a stop to talking about things off the board by making it a requirement that all mod communication, except in actual emergencies, be in Area 51. Then enforcing it. Because yeah the A51 releases are a joke when we know from the mods or, for those who play semantics (Hi Tamar!), former mods who were mods a few days ago themselves: So yeah A51 releases are a waste designed to placate people into thinking the staff is all into transparency.
No, I'm talking about prior to that change. When I was made "an observer", I took the time to read nearly every thread in the Shelter. "Meh." Then again, I don't get as worked up over WF drama as most people around here do.
I tried to spice it up in the "Flashlight" thread. That'll be the last time I try to entertain you people.
Star Chamber? Wha? Are we playing Super Mario now? Anyways. I'm not sure how I feel about some of what you said. People complain that there's an us vs. them mentality, yet some of the the things you said would seem to make that stronger.
Because sometimes you want a lot of input into something and when discussing something, people will respond to others. In other words, a group think/decision is sometimes valuable as opposed to hitting people privately one-on-one. Yeah, ya know? I just read that and winced. Three weeks of drama, resignations and such, posters leaving and the fix is to let the mods play "attack the posters they don't like" with some lame rep system so they can be just like the posters in having the same rights? Okkkkay. Of course, part of the problem is that so many people truly care about rep, both mods and posters. It's stupid. If you need that much affirmation that you get upset over people neg-repping you, something isn't right. Easier to switch the silly thing off.
Though I am extremely hesitant to use wikipedia as a reference, it is a good place to get the jist of something. Star Chamber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_Star_Chamber How is advocating impartiality and consistency by staff contributing to the current divisive tone of the board? How is suggesting there are more pressing problems here than reputation going to divide the board even further? Thanks for the clarification on the BR threads. I always thought that was peculiar, but it turns out you did have a reason. T'Bonz, I'm getting scared. We're seeing eye to eye on a number of topics recently. Armageddon? Or just acknowledging that some things are water under the bridge? I hope it's the latter.
If people are willing to meet me halfway, I usually will do likewise. While some things online will irk me in the short term, I usually find after a while that I no longer give a damn. I'm bad at grudges, I guess. Too much energy and memory needed to sustain 'em. Things change over time anyhow. I'm very different than I was when I first started with various Trek boards. I've mellowed out a lot. Chalk it up to being online forever and getting older. I guess I'll be a total marshmallow if I make it to my mid-80s or so.
