Good call on DNR. Always thought it defeated the whole purpose of releasing A51 threads. Anything like personal info should simply be edited and marked as such.
Clearly WF needs the White Room. It's demise correlates w/ the drama... I volunteer to resurrect it, with an eye toward legal implications for the board.
Most of the problems don't come from the format, but people's judgements. As far as the structure of the place goes, transparency is admirable, but also something self-defeating. For example, the latest mod threads are amazingly devoid of anything interesting. It either means that the threads are being sanitzied, or because it is a transparent forum, that the mods are no longer utilizing it as a communication forum for anything other than technical issues. Human nature, but it kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I'd just assume see the mods have a place to discuss things in private than the illusion of transparency. The other thing that I disagree with is mods aren't just posters with more responsibilities - they are posters with more power. That invites accountability, and treating them just like they were any other poster with a few perks diminishes that function. We've seen a trend toward that lately. There's nothing particularly broken about the board, it's like most others. A lot of people hold it to a higher standard, which I don't think is fair. All the problems that led to the exodus from Big Blue were largely personality based. You can have the best rules structure in the world but if they aren't followed and people don't use good judgement you are going to have problems.
Nah, that's pretty much everything. That's what the Shelter usually looks like. Whatcha want, force mods to make for more interesting drama in there for entertainment? That's the big secrets lurking in there, that's what has been trolled for and rioted for and generally been a prick about for. There was no sanitizing beyond removing personal information. Not speaking for the staff but sorry that you're not entertained. Personally I find the Eliteforge HQ kinda dull too On a personal note I have to say I'm not surprised that high level communications seem to go via IM or phone these days. That's what happens when there are certain people only waiting to stir up trouble over every word that's being said. Which, incidentally, is also the strongest argument against an entirely open mod forum and the idea behind A51 - to have a place where you can brainstorm without being lynched at once for saying something. Anyway, there are a few teh drama threads but they're still active and will probably be included in the next release.
1) Be more aggressive with warnings, or just get rid of the warning system altogether. Warnings are not bans and they're not punishment; they're warnings. A mistaken warning can be corrected fairly easily. People don't take what rules we have at all seriously because warnings are almost never handed out. That goes for longstanding members--and I'm not excluding myself--and incoming trolls alike. If even Zodicranny, who tried and tried to get himself banned while just barely maintaining plausible deniability of the suicide effort, didn't just accumulate the five warnings needed for a ban, no one but an extreme suicide troll will, making warnings pretty much useless. 2) Being more aggressive with warnings has a corollary of spending much less time pondering bans. Absent illegality, this should almost never be an issue. On the other hand, if warnings aren't going to be handed out when rules are broken, then at least temporary bans without five warnings need to be handed out more frequently. Better IMO to just hand out warnings when earned. 3) While trolling should be tolerated, and even admired when creative and entertaining enough, it shouldn't be encouraged when it's simply juvenile, and it should be cracked down on when it's destructive. Trolling to provoke a reaction, or even just out of boredom, is ok; trolling to drive people away from the board, or trolling with threats, or trolling just to keep the staff busy, or trolling in an effort to get the board shut down isn't. 4) I strongly agree with Demiurge about the Shelter releases in theory, but in practice there are enough people who will complain loudly enough about a lack of release that withholding shelter threads probably isn't worth it. If you're going to adopt a strict schedule, which I think is a mistake, then you really have to stick to it. Better, if you're going to release threads, simply to release them as they die, as per Tamar's suggestion. And whatever you do, don't let that shifty bastard Clyde have too much power.
I'd like to suggest something that worked at another board I frequent to help quell the relative unrest among the masses and give a voice to people who feel voiceless with the staff. This other board has about the same number of active posters so I think this will work well. What they do is in their main forum, so here the Red Room, the mod there is chosen by the posters. They gave it a cornball name(Prime Minister) to boot. Who cares what we would call it. This person would still be answerable to Elwood and could be overidden by admins, but when you're unhappy with the Red Room mod instead of demanding someone who has been a mod for years be fired throw em outta office on the next election. The length of term can be whatever we want it to be, they do it in three month intervals and once someone has been elected PM, they can't run again for another year. Something to chew on. A lot of the issues we are seeing here now were a problem there and to some extent they will always be a problem. I think this could go some of the way of getting rid of the appearance of "eliteforge"
Here are some of my thoughts on the subject. Moderator policies: I think you should have a pare down of moderators; you have more then you need. Some rooms are so under utilized that they hardly require a mod at all. So you can have one mod for a bundle of the the smaller forums, and have roving surper mods for the major forums. And keep the staff out of the drama threads. More then half the reason these threads go on so long is there is usually a staff member or three to fight, after they inflame the issue. Without staff participation, these threads would hardly go two pages. Have a periodic staff rotation, nobody should be a mod for longer then a year at a time. It prevents burn out, and if you pick from the general population, minimalizes accusations of an entrenched staff. Board policy and drama: Keep the message coherent. Appoint one or two of the staff to be a voice of wordforge, so to speak. As a policy problem arises, they, and only they speak for the administration. It cuts down on any possible confusion of the issue, by having a single, coherent voice. When an issue arises, have that staff member come into the tread and say something on the order of: "We see the concerns being raised, please give us two days to discuss it, and we will get back to you with a decision." Then open up a seperate HD thread with your dicision, and discussion of it. Bans: there shouldn't be any, IMHO, except for the releasing of actual personal information, and trying to destroy the board. Have a general amnesty, right now. I have more ideas, which I'll get to later.
Why don't you just shut up? You have totally lost the plot, and you never, ever, contribute a damn thing to these discussions, except your johhny stuck on one note replies. Don't you need to go save the world from disaster again, you boring, phoney, bitter, twat?
In that case, shitstirrers like you would proclaim how the staff doesn't react to 'concerns'. There are no other bans. Except for polarslam, who managed 50 warnings or so including calling almost everybody a pedophile (not a good thing when a prospective employer looks you up). Heck, even face is still here and at least I have tried my darndest to get rid of him.
That's hot from somebody who just spent 3 weeks stirring the pot. I just love how you're trying to look 'concerned' when in reality, you love nothing more than good drama prolonged ad infinitum.
I stirr the post when I think it needs stirring. You don't like it, tough. You're as dull as a rusty butter knife at this point.
Yes, you stir the pot for your entertainment And I don't aim to be funny. Go suck up to Storm if you want funny.
Hey...you're in the Help Desk not the Red Room...take that shit elsewhere. Aw fuck, guess you can't completely get rid of the Admin virus.
No no that's let them continue. It's fun when an obvious ass kisser and a frustrated member beat on each other.
Yeah that's a problem too. Obviously I've noticed the inclination to do so in the Shelter threads. (See Demi! Some of it isn't edited out.) That's another problem right there. Sorry I don't break enough rules that you create for me. Maybe we shouldn't have staff members using their extra power to target members they don't like. If they can't control themselves maybe they should step off staff.
I think your continued prescence proves not everyone on staff does it and will argue when they see it being done.
Shelter threads. Theirs are pretty similar to ours. If one knows that threads will go public, people will self-censor. Any real juicy stuff will probably go to IM. Even if that were not the case, probably 95% of Shelter stuff is plain old boring board business. The other 5%, the juicy stuff (fights, etc.) are a minority on any board. So even if there was 100% transparency (well, a tad less taking out RL info), there is very little "drama" in the staff room. Or shouldn't be, if it is run properly. * * As a member, but basically an outsider, one of the things I see that hurts the board and has been an issue since Cass ran it is that some staff wish to "play", that is, to troll, to pick on a poster, to gang up. To run a board effectively, a mod or admin CAN'T be seen as willing to do that to posters, even if various posters deserves it. Mods have to remove themselves from that type of thing. If not, there is a perception of using one's position against the posters and some posters get mad and feel that the mods are the enemy and the attitude of "them" vs. "us" gets set up and then it is nothing but a battle. Part of being a mod or admin is giving up some perks (like subtle or not so subtle trolling) and having to behave. In exchange, they get the satisfaction of helping to shape and run a board about which they care. But you can't have your cake and eat it to. I think that it would be obvious that having several mods plot against a poster is a bad thing. If that isn't seen and it continues, this kind of thing will happen again and you'll lose more posters, not all of them bad.
I also agree with that. I apologize for not mentioning it. But yes, there are staffers on there who are level headed about it...but some oscillate far too often for my taste...
You may laugh, but that is the case. Every now and then mods will vent about some poster being an ass. Every now and then two mods will butt heads. But most mod rooms aren't or shouldn't be gossip pits. In this day and age, with such things being hacked, if you run a place and let people gossip, you're asking for trouble. From what I'd seen here, it's not a big problem. I doubt those are stripped out, as I did see a few threads in the latest batch where mods briefly went at one another. So I stand by what I said. Besides, on this board, the drama seems to be front and center and not hidden in the back room.
As a board owner, I disagree, and think the idea of a "transparent" Staff forum always ends up being a half-enforced whitewash. A staff-only forum is a matter of taste/preference. If you decide you need one, fine, the membership should accept it as part of the landscape. If they start whining about it, tough. It's an old troll anyway. But if you can't stand by your decision, then don't have one. And let the chips fall in QSF. But placating the membership by occasionally releasing select threads will never earn their respect or reflect favorably on the owner. There will always be more questions than answers, and it will eat away at the board like a cancer. Users can respect a consistent policy, even they don't agree with it.
Bleah. Yeah, boards are fabulous staffed by unhappy people who can't just post like everyone else. People say they don't want us vs them and wish to create that very thing. The mere idea just because a person has the power to move around threads and warn and ban they have to have some rictus of perfection is ludicrous. People won't be treated unfairly because there is a staff of more than one person. If unfairness goes down, people will step forward and get it undone. I screwed up, many times, I've trolled and been targeted and all sort of fun stuff...but I always treated everyone the same anyway. I never discounted Face or Tasvir because they said horrible crap to me, nor would I. And most of the staff is the same way.
It's not perfection. It's not doing anything that will cause trouble for the board. It's plain common sense. If you HAVE to troll or stomp on someone, stay a poster. That's not so hard. Or invite 'em over to TK and stomp on them. Just saying, from a poster's viewpoint, it looks REALLY BAD when several mods start ganging up. Doesn't matter if the victim is a twat that merits it, to John Q. Poster, it looks like the mods are using their position to be shits. Mods get enough grief. Why bring it on yourself by actions? And no one expects "perfection". No one on the internets is perfect. We all fuck up, some more than others.
How in the world is one person calling someone a twat any worse than another doing the same. Mod powers have nothing to do with it. Now, if the mod is changing their sigs, avatar, or rep score...that's abusing their position. But Nick calling me a bitch is no different than you calling me a bitch. To say there is a difference is silly.
