All Black comic book characters should be replaced with white actors for film adaptations

Whelp, guess we're there then! Oh, wait, you're talking about characters, not real life. :|

The quality of the episode writing is irrelevant. Whatever you think of the development of Janeway, the fact remains that the character is in command and carries the respect of her subordinates. That means the character's purpose is to show that women can hold positions of power as well as men. Episode storylines do not negate this.

It's a shame your inherent misogyny doesn't allow you to admit it.

Nope, RL.

There's a kind of logic to that, as I assume the poster was referring to there eventually being enough minorities in power to influence the way award shows (to use the example from that discussion) promoted less than stellar black actors for being super popular the same as less than stellar white actors for being super popular (i.e. Mel Gibson winning best actor for Gladiator over Tom Hanks in Castaway).

Okay, so your only standard is that she's a woman. Doesn't matter if she's a good captain actually on par with the previous three leads. Got it.

I love how you ideologues always go back to this. No proof of it at all, plenty of evidence to the opposite, but nope, I obviously hate women because I thought Janeway was a poorly written character that, if anything, does a great disservice to the cause of gender equality.

While I agree with your general point, Afghanistan is now canon even in the main comics line. Marvel continuity works in interesting ways, updating the past to slow down the main characters' aging.

They really should have cast Leslie Jones as Mary Jane.

She got her ship home, despite impossible odds and challenges no Starfleet captain had ever faced, and she did it for the most part without violating the principles she swore to uphold. I call that a win.

[Captain X] Yes, but she was bad 'cause vagina. [/Captain X]

Ah Dammit! Spoiler that shit!

God, the meltdowns would have been epic.

Mel Gibson was in Gladiator?

What, do all white guys look alike?

Or Braveheart.

Whatever movie he starred in that year, it was overhyped crap.

Sisko started the Dominion war by refusing to respect their territory, then couldn't win it without lying to the Romulans and murdering a senator, and even then it was probably the Prophets that kept him alive for their own purposes.

Kirk dropped Khan off next to a planet that was about to explode and didn't even notice, or think to leave a warning beacon in orbit. Every bad thing that happened in TWOK and SFS is 100% on his shoulders. Then he only manages to "save the day" in TVH by completely disregarding the temporal prime directive. Or is that only a bad thing when Admiral Janeway does it?

Picard exposed the Federation to the Borg early because he couldn't be nice to Q for one afternoon, then let himself get kidnapped by them, at which point the Borg used his classified knowledge to destroy 39 Starfleet vessels.

But no, Janeway was the awful one.

Again I'll ask, @Federal Farmer, since you didn't reply to my post: If Stan Lee, who co-created Mary Jane Watson (with Jack Kirby, I believe), doesn't give a damn on if a black actress portrays the character on screen, why are you arguing with Word of God?

I'm going to try this one last time because you haven't been an asshole to me in general, and then I'm going to make a seperate point.

Mary Jane is clearly depicted as a white girl in the comics, yes?

If yes, then it would make sense that if you are making a Spider-Man movie and you wanted to make the actors/ actresses look as close to the way they are depicted in the comics as close as possible, would it not make sense to cast a white girl or a white looking girl for that role?

If I see a picture of say Yoda, I would likely say to myself, " hmm, I should probably create a green looking frog type alien that closely resembles the same type of Yoda that most people are familiar with because that is what the character of Yoda looks like." " Maybe at the time, Frank Oz is dead, so I can't cast Frank Oz, but I'd like to get someone who sounds as close to him as possible and I want the look of Yoda to be as close as possible as he did in ESB." Is there something wrong with that type of thinking?

What makes no sense is looking at a picture of Mary Jane and saying, " that girl looks white, but I'm going to cast her as black."

Or, " I saw a picture of MJ and despite her looking white to everyone in the world, she looks black to me so I'm going to cast a black girl."

I think everyone would agree that in the comics, she's depicted as white, no?

As far as Stan Lee's opinion, well, it's typical liberal behavior. If I say that James Madison didn't approve of the modern welfare system, it's ignored, even though he's the father of the Constitution, but if Stan Lee says he's okay with a black Mary Jane, it's the word of God and shouldn't be ignored. So once again, liberals prove their double standard, which is the whole point of this thread.

I've explained my position, I'm now done responding to this thread.

You're unbelievably stupid. Maybe if you were smarter, you'd be able to hide your irrational fear of black people. But you can't.

Also, @Federal Farmer comparing direct quotes from a living Stan Lee with his moronic interpretations of the wishes of long dead founding fathers? Hilarious.

The next time I quote James Madison to refute your moronic claims and prove a point, you won't be opposed to it, right?

Will James Madison be alive and will the quote being from an interview conducted that same week, where he was asked about the exact topic we're discussing? No? Then don't be stupid.

Also, I made you respond in the thread again.

Sure. (Who doesn't like redheads? )

If that attribute is important to her character, if it's a major defining trait of that character, sure. I submit, however, that skin and hair color aren't terribly important traits to most characters or how their personalities are depicted. Personality and characterization are more important than skin tone. This is precisely why shifting Nick Fury from white in the comics to black in the movies isn't an issue -- sure, Nick Fury has a very distinct look to him in the comics, but Samuel L Jackson has the air of being Nick Fury. That's more important than getting a white actor to play the part -- it's getting an actor, regardless of skin pigmentation, who can convince viewers that they are that character. Same rule applies here with Mary Jane. If we were to be faithful to the comics, Kirsten Dunst was a bad, bad choice -- she's blonde, not a redhead. But a physical trait does not make the character in of itself. So, Dunst dyes her hair, and does a passable job of being Mary Jane Watson. All an actress has to do is convince me while I'm watching her play Mary Jane Watson is that she is Mary Jane Watson. Does she hold true to the character itself? If yes, then we'll have ourselves a black Mary Jane Watson and be all the better for it. If not, then the actress was poorly cast, regardless of skin color.

Here's an exception: If Mary Jane being a white redhead in the comics influences her character at all, then that's an important factor in who should take up the role on screen. For example, if Mary Jane were bullied for her red hair growing up, if her being white made her a bully or prejudiced, then casting a black actress in that instance wouldn't make much sense. As it is, Mary Jane is simply Peter Parker's girlfriend in most people's eyes, so a particular 'look' isn't crucial so long as her basic personality and mannerisms are met.

I don't think this is a good argument to make -- aliens have a fairly defined look that will be matched as closely as possible, otherwise we're creating a new species; secondly, voice acting is easier to mimic than visual accuracy, so if Frank Oz passed away but we needed Yoda, there would be a dearth of voice actors that could step into the role with minimal training.

As opposed to auditioning a good number of actresses and selecting the one that closest matches the director's vision of the character/has best chemistry with the co-lead, and in this case, perhaps the winning audition happened to be black?

Sure. It's still a less important issue. Mary Jane was created, when, in the 1960s? Where having a black girl friend was still a hot button issue, and depicting that in the comic would have spelled disaster for both Spiderman and Marvel itself? Whereas now with society having progressed to the point where interracial relationships is far, far less of an issue so with these reboots to put these iconic characters into modern settings, Peter Parker having a black girlfriend isn't a Big Deal; Nick Fury being black makes the character that much more iconic.

I think you're seeing a liberal vs conservative narrative where there really isn't one. I don't see changes this honestly minor as some campaign to adhere to some modicum of political correctness; it's far more simple than that -- it's to find who best matches the character's personality and mannerisms on screen, so the studio can make the most money in return.

Mmhmm.

There's really nothing more to say after that.

The thread could've ended pages ago after Stan Lee was quote with being cool with the change.

Maybe. We all know how George Lucas continued to mess with things.

No because @Federal Farmer quoting James Madison and libruls and wake up sheeple

Except all the times she actually did violate those principles by doing stuff like torturing a Starfleet officer, and all the random, insane decisions she made over the course of the show. Her nickname is "Insaneway" for a reason, after all.

Again, I'll ask this one even though I already know the answer from far too many people - flip the races. Do you feel any differently? Or would that be "whitewashing?"

Black Stan Lee approving of a white Mary Jane?
Fine by me.

Who's to say a male Janeway would've been written the exact same way?

He'll, one could argue that the first two seasons of Enterprise is proof that her shitty writing had fuck all to do with being a woman, but just because the killer Bs are hacks.

[/quote]
I can't speak for Bick, but I wouldn't. But neither will I play stupid as if I can't get why there would be outrage about it.

FFS, you are half-Native American and you don't get this shit?

All the other captains violated their principles as well, over and over. All the other captains made poor decisions as well. Why single out Janeway, other than because of her lady parts?

As it should be.

He would have. After all, that's essentially what Archer was. But that's not the point I was making, which is that Janeway hardly makes a good example for gender equality, precisely because she was so poorly written. Plenty of other examples to choose from who were competently written.

*gasp* Someone remembered I'm biracial.

You do seem to forget that I don't actually have a problem with this casting. As far as I'm concerned, as a different adaptation/reboot, it doesn't really matter, although I roll my eyes at "increasing representation" or "diversity" being given as a reason for doing so. No, the problem I have is the double standard some people seem to have. After all, not that terribly long ago, people were bemoaning the "whitewashing" of having Scarlett Johansson play Major Kusinagi in the upcoming GitS movie. Of course, there are also people whining about Casca being depicted as being paler in the current crappy CGI anime than she was in previous adaptations, so I guess my point is that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I do kind of understand people caring about the source material, even if the original creator has no problem with it themselves. Does that really matter? What if Stan Lee did care? Hell, people would probably accuse him of being racist even if it was a source material issue for him, too.