Obama: [cages kids] Republicans: "This is the most disgusting thing! These children deserve better!" Trump: [cages kids] Republicans: "It's more like summer camp." [wide stance noises] Biden: [cages kids] Republicans: "Joe Biden is scum, and has brought shame upon our nation!" Of course, that being said: Obama: [cages kids] Democrats: [brunch noises] Trump: [cages kids] Democrats: "Donald Trump is scum, and has brought shame upon our nation." Biden: [cages kids] Democrats: "It's more like summer camp." [brunch noises]
I am genuinely curious. When you make this bullshit false equivalency between the policies of Obama and Biden to Trump do you not understand the facts? That one policy is about intentionally creating psychological trauma in children by separating them from their family and the other is about doing due diligence when it comes to unaccompanied minors so the government isn’t just handing children over to some dude that shows up and says ‘The little girls, those are my nieces, give them to me, give me the little girls.’..? Are you actually unable to grasp the difference? Or have you decided the truth doesn’t matter as long as you are lying to ‘own the libs’?
Can you offer a material distinction not grounded in attributed intent? Different facilities, different agencies, etc..
So you are saying that you can’t see a difference? That the government shouldn’t try and make sure they are handing children over to the right folks?
Yes. One policy, Trump’s Family Separation Policy was about separating children who came with their family from their parents with the explicitly stated purpose of creating psychological trauma. The STATED PREMISE was that it would be so traumatizing for everyone involved that it would deter future migrants. The other policy, Family Reconciliation, is about making sure that unaccompanied minors get placed with the proper family members. Are you seriously too fucking stupid to see the difference? Or are you asking about how under Trump the children TAKEN FEOM THEIR FAMILIES were denied basic necessities, including care packages? While those detained under Obama and Biden are not only provided necessities by the FedGov but care packages are also allowed. Or would you like to compare the length of stay under the two policies? Where under Family Separation the children are kept locked up until either the court case is decided or until the family gives up. Compared to Family Reconciliation it is just until a proper guardian has been located? Or do you want to compare the facilities? (Yes; Biden has opened up new facilities, FEMA, HHS and military to more comfortably house unaccompanied migrant children while verifying guardians.) Tell me what you are ignorant of and I’ll try as hard as I can to educate you, even though I have serious doubts about your ability to learn.
I'm saying it's a good cover for what they've been doing since at least Obama, and that if you can't see what is being done as cruel, then I don't know what to tell you. Trump was more blatant, but both Obama and Biden are already destroying the lives in those cages. The ACLU sued the Obama administration for child abuse. The ACLU sued Trump. They're going to sue Biden (though they already are for his deporting Haitians despite claiming he wouldn't). The organization I'm involved with works directly with Al Otro Lado, and a few churches along the border in Texas to deal with the influx of refugees. We know what happens on the ground there, and where these people are trying to both get in, or get free. Here, just in case you think things have gotten better: https://www.kusi.com/photos-of-bidens-migrant-detention-facility-show-children-in-cages/ The clamor made by the Democrats even a few months ago under Trump have all but gone silent.
Nova posted an update on Facebook the other day about how the Biden administration has been able to get the number of detained kids way down since the peak a few months ago. I think it was like a 75% reduction. Not that the "both sides" types actually care. Edit: I obviously can't link to her page, but here's the text.
Obama separated kids at the border. Trump separated kids at the border. Biden's getting them separated before they reach the border. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/03/20/border-family-separation-mexico-biden-477309
Number of Migrant Children Detained at Border Has Tripled in Two Weeks https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/08/us/joe-biden-news
So I should put you in the camp of first dude that shows up at the border facilities and says the little girls are his should be handed the children? Otherwise what is your solution?
You're not convincing me this is much more than a difference in marketing tactics depending on the intended domestic audience. Which is it? Necessities, or care packages? Were they given food, water and shelter, or not? Unless they were starved to death in one instance and not the other, you sound like you're hanging your hat on whether or not mom could send them cookies. Sounds like you want them released before the ruling on citizenship, in which case they can easily disappear and never be found again. Hard to establish "proper" guardianship when you know goddamned well many of them show up with no verifiable ID or birth records. If you're advocating for some kind of expedited DNA comparison infrastructure, I might actually be in favor, otherwise this is not as cut and dried as you present it. Are you about to claim each president used his own preferred facilities and ordered the others abandoned?
@Ancalagon This is why the ACLU was suing Obama: https://www.aclu.org/press-releases...-detaining-asylum-seekers-intimidation-tactic https://www.aclu.org/blog/smart-jus...wants-continue-imprisoning-immigrant-families https://www.aclu.org/blog/juvenile-...-obama-and-texas-are-colluding-detain-refugee Some corroboration: https://www.npr.org/sections/itsall...obama-immigrant-detention-policies-under-fire https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...cb31a8-5e00-11e8-a4a4-c070ef53f315_story.html https://www.sacurrent.com/the-daily...tion-for-detaining-migrant-women-and-children https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-a...t-locking-potential-asylum-seekers-msna487026 https://thehill.com/homenews/campai...-obama-administration-didnt-separate-families Make all the excuses you want. To repeat: Obama: [cages kids] Democrats: [brunch noises] Trump: [cages kids] Democrats: "Donald Trump is scum, and has brought shame upon our nation." Biden: [cages kids] Democrats: "It's more like summer camp." [brunch noises]
Did they update the numbers and provide a date for those new numbers, or was the update unrelated to the numbers? I looked, I couldn't find updated April 22nd numbers.
If the headline were made false by the updates, it would have been changed. That aside, I've made my point. You can drag it out if you like, but I'm not interested, so you'll have to choose someone else to figure out what the definition of 'is' is.
So, for the third time what is your alternative to waiting to vet claimed guardians instead of just giving kids to the first person who claims them? Or heck, are you saying that they shouldn’t even be held until someone shows up? But that the kids should just be set down on the US side of the border and told ‘Good Luck!’? Tell me what Amaris would do?
Quick question before I waste more time talking to brick walls. If I were to provide you links to articles about how, YES, Biden has opened up space at FEMA, HHS and DOD facilities to get those kids as quickly as possible out of the temporary border facilities would you a) actually look at them b) be able to comprehend them c) actually admit you are ignorant of the situation afterwards? Followup, please give me a list of sources for these facts you’d find acceptable.
For the fourth time what is your alternative to waiting to vet claimed guardians instead of just giving kids to the first person who shows up? Or heck, are you saying that they shouldn’t even be held until someone shows up? But that the kids should just be set down on the US side of the border and told ‘Good Luck!’?
I'm already working with people who are finding solutions. You know, I use to admire Obama. I was a huge fan, voted for him twice. Then I found about the drone bombings, and the erosion of privacy policies he kept pushing through, and that diminished my respect for him considerably. Then I found out about the cages, and it shattered any good faith I had in him. I don't know what it takes to keep believing in someone who has caused so much harm, maybe Trump people know, I don't know, but I certainly can't do it. I will not defend the indefensible. You keep on defending Biden, I'm sure it will work out for those kids like it did for the ones under Obama and Trump. I mean, it's like summer camp.
By the way, if anyone's interested, here's how you can help: You can donate to organizations like RAICES, who are current working to free as many children from cages as possible: https://nokidsincages.com/ https://www.raicestexas.org/?ms=nkicweb You can protest with Al Otro Lado, or help them provide supplies to cross border camps where refugees are in desperate need. https://alotrolado.org/ Just don't pretend everything is okay, because it's not, and don't trust anyone who tries to explain it away as an unfortunate evil. If they can dismiss kids in cages, they can dismiss any kind of cruelty.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/12/politics/border-migrant-children/index.html This article was last updated April 12th. And since you're not giving Anc a real answer, let me try: What is your alternative to waiting to vet claimed guardians instead of just giving kids to the first person who shows up?
All I could see what that one organization provides free or low cost legal services. Do these organizations oppose only releasing children to properly vetted guardians? If so, what alternative are they proposing?
This is what someone does when they have nothing left. It's funny, because at least I acknowledge what's going on, and recognize the work that needs done to fix it. People like you are just here to run it into the ground because you never thought there was an issue in the first place, and now you have to make some noise over it so it at least seems like you give a damn. Play your games, but I'm not going to be your @garamet, may she rest in peace.
Sorry not sorry, but you don't get to shriek about "kids in cages" endlessly when you can't properly explain what you personally think should be the alternative. You sound exactly as credible as someone condemning heart surgery by complaining "They cut them! They cut the sick people with knives while they're unconscious! It's monstrous! PEOPLE ARE GETTING STABBED WITH KNIVES!!" Constructively propose a real alternative or stop expecting anyone to take you seriously.
Pay attention, folks: when they can't defend their guy keeping kids in cages, they get mad at the people who speak up about it. They have no principles, just a need to always be right. They're enablers. They voted in a rapist to get rid of another rapist, and they have the temerity to demand someone talk about solutions that they will accept as valid. Fuck that, and fuck you guys for being defenders of child abuse. I hate both of your parties, they cover for the sins of a moral decaying empire, and I want no part of it.
