The BIF, Build Back Better, Continuing Resolution and Debt Ceiling omnibus

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Ancalagon, Sep 26, 2021.

  1. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  2. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  3. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    I'm seeing a lot of Twitter discourse about how we shouldn't blame Manchin and Sinema, we should blame all the Republican senators.

    Seems a little weird if coming from the left, which has pretty much given up on expecting Republicans to vote with Democrats on anything.

    So what is the source?
     
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  4. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2021/10/22/sinema-warren-billionaire-tax/

    Democrats are trying to tax unrealized capital gains, with deductions for unrealized capital losses, of billionaires and people making $100,000,000/year for 3 years.

    The perverse incentives this creates, for billionaires, entrepreneurs, and public policy should be obvious, but apparently not.

    The inevitable narrative after the next stock market correction: "Treasury writes billionaires checks for $50M". "Warren vows to stop giveaway to billionaires", just like the corporate loss carry-forwards that have had people up in arms for years.

    Forcing founders to liquidate their ownership and control of their companies is bad for business. This might be mitigated with nontransferable super-voting shares, but as the economic and control incentives diverge, misalignment and moral hazard is all but guaranteed. See Tim Sweeney re: Epic.

    For the rich-but-not-quite-billionaires, this encourages them to take out personal loans as long as interest rates are lower than the tax rate, rather than grow their holdings across the billionaire line, simultaneously increasing their own consumption with no commensurate tax increase.

    For proper billionaires market manipulation on Dec. 31 to lower their assessed gains for the tax year as much as possible becomes a viable strategy, depending on the size of the tax.


    A less distortionary alternative would be to tax equity-collateralized loans based on the loan amount.
     
  5. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    this seems about right
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    I think the point is that the left shouldn't let the press and punditry get by with just assuming the Republicans are bad actors as "background noise" effectively letting them off the hook for explaining why they oppose the proposed policies.
     
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  7. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    No it doesn't. To continue the absurd consumerist analogy, if I ordered Domino's and they deliver the wrong thing I'm still justified in complaining. Regardless of whether Pizza Hut has been taken over by the Joker.
     
  8. NAHTMMM

    NAHTMMM Perpetually sondering

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    I'm glad you're only disappointed with the cheese pizza while I sit over here dying from the arsenic poisoning that the mushrooms were supposed to save me from.
     
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  9. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  10. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Somehow I knew that something like this has been done already.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/The_Batman_(TV_Series)_Episode:_Strange_Minds
     
  11. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    There's a difference between "why won't you vote for this" and "will you vote for this." Spending time asking the from of a group notorious for deciding not to play the game seems like a waste compared to getting people allegedly on your own team to at least make an effort.

    Your point makes more sense to me in terms of getting out the vote than getting this bill passed.
     
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  12. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

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    Well yeah, obviously they are not going to give you any votes on the bill. They've gone to the mat (debt ceiling) to prove what their game is
     
  13. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Yeah, but how much do they get paid when they deliver the goods? Some of those Canteen drivers that fill up vending machines pull in six figures.
     
  14. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    In 2006 (latest I found for PoS): White drivers averaged $40,661 a year (median 35k) and POC drivers averaged $27,379 a year (median 25k).

    http://www.portjobs.org/storage/documents/bigrig_shorthaul_exec.pdf
     
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  15. Man Afraid of his Shoes

    Man Afraid of his Shoes كافر

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    Holy Shit!
     
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  16. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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    Allegedly the original ebike tax credit is now in the bill?
     
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  17. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    I need details.
     
  18. mburtonk

    mburtonk mburtonkulous

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  19. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    I heard years ago from a black acquaintance that he had driven a beer truck for one of the big distributors in the Tampa Bay area. He said they treated him well, but the problem was that black drivers got routes with mostly black customers. There was a big difference in income for drivers in black neighborhoods, versus drivers in white neighborhoods. He said it wasn't overt, it was just the way things were. :clyde:
     
  20. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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    Every time the value of my property goes up I pay higher property tax.

    If it's an issue. allow them to buy T-bills.

    But the old conceit that investment in corporations is always good for America is beyond obtuse. Most large publicly traded corps are internationals. Making money for investing in ROI in China is NOT an advantage to the US national interest, the US federal government, or the average tax payer.

    The only way it should be deferred is if it's local. And almost none of it is.
     
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  21. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    This is great news. This not only cuts seniors’ costs but saves the government money which can hopefully be used to mollify Manchin.
     
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  22. Order2Chaos

    Order2Chaos Ultimate... Immortal Administrator

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    You don’t get money back on your property taxes if the housing market tanks, and 46 states + DC have at least some sort of constitutional brake on increases, either assessment (CA and 18 others), rate, or total levy. Apples and oranges.
     
  23. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Having caps on assessments only increases the problems.

    Here’s the thing about taxes. Bills gotta get paid. Even bills owed by the government. Putting a cap on assessments only fixes one variable. If there’s no limit on government spending or tax rates, the cap on assessments doesn’t lower or even keep your taxes where they were the previous year.

    And, putting a cap on government spending essentially means government employees don’t get paid. That includes teachers as well as the drones at the DMV.

    Guess who does get paid - law enforcement. Cuz they’re the only group that idiot voters allow to keep their unions.

    So, lowering or staying property taxes does absolutely nothing for creating jobs or helping the economy. In fact, it only makes things worse.
     
  24. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  25. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  26. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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  27. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  28. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  29. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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  30. Ancalagon

    Ancalagon Scalawag Administrator Formerly Important

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    2D8EAED1-1CA2-481B-B98E-6B48E604B07C.jpeg
     
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