Israel is Coming Apart at the Seams, It Seems

As the extent of the massacre at the Music Festival of Peace becomes apparent, lots of analysts seem to have trouble understanding the decision by Hamas to embrace ISIS-style tactics.

I think there's a very clear brutal calculus going on here.


https://x.com/cwjones89/status/1711093453516358123

Thread

https://www.ft.com/content/aa7eb6ba-6dc1-46dc-b96a-b7c3a1b0446e

New York's pro-Palestine demonstration today.

Donald Trump's intelligence leaks to Putin are speculated to include details of Israeli defenses.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-israel-intel-russia-hamas-attack-1833094

Thom Hartmann, author and political commentator, posted on X, formerly Twitter, while sharing a 2017 article from The Washington Post: "Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel's Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin."

Allison Gill, who tweets using the account for the Mueller, She Wrote podcast, added: "Don't forget: Trump gave Israeli intelligence to Russians in the Oval Office 6 years ago. Putin armed Iran in exchange for drones to attack Ukraine."

While sharing a link of its own reporting of Trump's handing over of sensitive materials, the Meidas Touch X account posted: "FLASHBACK: Trump shared classified intelligence from Israel with Russia—and admitted to it. Israeli intelligence feared it would end up in the hands of Iran."

"This isn't hard to follow," added musician and author Mikel Jollett. "Trump gave military intel to the Russians. The Russians, who are extremely close allies with Iran, gave it to Iran. Iran gave that information to Hamas. Hamas used it to attack Israel. This is why intel security matters. Republicans DO NOT CARE."

The official representative of the military wing of Hamas, Abu Ubaida, said that in response to each "strike without warning" from Israel, the group will execute a civilian prisoner.


https://bsky.app/profile/noelreports.bsky.social/post/3kbdi3zl54w2h

https://x.com/thomasvlinge/status/1711344058763780463?s=46&t=iYW3foyqIA6Tn8VWwn3nwQ

https://bsky.app/profile/mtsw.bsky.social/post/3kbdfhg3l6l22

It's too much to call them "an Israeli creation" but isn't it common knowledge that the defeat of Arab nationalism played an important role in the rise of Islamism? Not just in Palestine but throughout the ME.

Kudos to Haaretz in all of this, incidentally. I don't always agree but there's an objectivity and understanding lacking in the western media.

Partially but secular dictatorships in general, not just in the Arab World.

Good Reuters run down:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...hamas-planned-devastating-assault-2023-10-08/

Israel should be making sure everyone knows this, that they tried for years to improve conditions in Gaza in the name of peace and Hamas threw it all away just to kill a few hundred people.

I wouldn't blame them if they completely emptied out Gaza. Let the countries that support Hamas take in a couple million refugees if they really care about the Palestinian people so much.

@RickDeckard Do you know how wars work? If you start a war trying to gain territory and you lose, you tend to forfeit some of your own territory as a result. That's how wars have worked for a long, long time.

Blame Hamas for starting a war they know they can't win.

Get fucked. You're doing everything you can to excuse war crimes.

Targetting civilians. Taking hostages. Collective punishment. Indiscriminate attacks. Ethnic cleansing .All wrong, regardless of the perpetrator and the situation. That much is simple.

Targeting civilians? No. Targeting Hamas and not validating Hamas' use of human shields? Yes. If it's clear human shields won't stop Israel and Hamas keeps using them anyway, that's on Hamas.

Prisoners of war? Sure. Hostages? No. I don't support anyone taking hostages.

Are you talking about cutting off the power? It's a war, not a gentlemanly game of sport. So long as Hamas controls Gaza, providing aid to Gaza means providing aid to Hamas.

Are you talking about expelling the population of Gaza if/when Hamas loses the war? That's how wars work. Do you think Hamas wouldn't do the same if they won the war and managed to expand the territory under their control?

Nah. I don't recall endorsing that here.

"How wars work."

"What Hamas would do."

Truly the standard we should hold people to.

Also, lest you've missed it, the obvious reference point is the cutting off of fuel, food and water to 2 million people, including 1 million kids. I'm very sure you'd have something to say about that if it was happening in Ukraine.

Please then your holiness, tell us how Israel should respond here, and what their objectives should be.

Are they allowed to aim towards a future where hundreds of people in their territory aren't raped and murdered and paraded through the streets by their neighbors at random intervals, or is that just the cost of being Jewish and existing in the Middle East?

Clearly they should withdraw en masse from the region. Peace and justice demand nothing less.

Here it comes. The demonization of all palestinians and muslims over this attack by Hamas. The attack was wrong, and Isreal does need to secure their country from a group that stockpiled weapons and an army to wage war against them. Yes, that does mean the palestinians need to give up harboring Hamas and any other terrorists or be complicit and need to be removed for the safety of the country. However, this is clearly an attempt to fear monger with all muslims and palestinians over an image of one person in a large crowd. Under this we should note that @Demiurge is clearly a nazi by his own admission because he stands with Nazis in their protests against trans people. Who would have thought our local trans hater who is demonizing the whole trans community over one swimmer in a sport he cared nothing about has now chosen one protestor in a crowd to try and pretend palestinians are Nazis.

Who could have seen this coming?

I 100% blame Hamas for that. Hamas knew it was a likely consequence of the attack they spent a long time planning and they did it anyway, apparently without any sort of plan to insulate the people of Gaza from the inevitable fallout.

I hope the people of Gaza are out in the streets protesting Hamas today for being so cavalier about their survival.

It's a slightly different situation there since as far as I know Russia has never openly admitted they're at war with Ukraine. They keep insisting it's a "special military operation" to "denazify" Ukraine, right?

Regardless, I never thought for a moment that Russia was still supplying Ukraine with anything since the invasion began, and I didn't hold it against Russia because continuing to supply a territory you're waging war against seems incredibly counterproductive.

The root causes and the general contours of a settlement remain unchanged. Prohibitions against war crimes apply to everyone at all times and places. Those include Hamas and Israel.

Still waiting for a proper answer here.

I could care less what you consider a "proper answer". The big picture is that the state of Israel has made the choice to sacrifice security for expansion. They could reverse that by abandoning apartheid. They won't, of course.

When Hamas murders hundreds of people on Israeli soil simply for the sake of it, and people respond to that massacre with nothing but "free Palestine" or "yay decolonization" or any sort of vague pro-Palestinian platitudes while failing to condemn that massacre, then those people deserve to be demonized.

It's like responding to Sandy Hook or Columbine with an "it's okay to be white" rally.

Hey look, you just showed more moral courage than the people you're worried about getting demonized.

At this point I consider the Palestinians in Gaza complicit unless I see something that convinces me they're trying to overthrow Hamas.

Similarly I consider Americans complicit in the Iraq war, but only following Bush's re-election.

Ah, there it is.

Yeah, there it is. The repudiation of the position that Israel is entirely blameless for the situation it finds itself in. Shooting at toddlers and peace protestors has absolutely nothing to do with receiving the same in kind. Let's ensure a few thousand people die of cholera, that'll show them!

Yes. Annexing territory is something allowed.

However that is an administrative thing. One state passes administrative control to another. The people already there get to stay there, the flag over their city hall just changes.

The inhabitants are required to be given full citizenship and have all the legal rights and privileges of other citizens (otherwise that is considered apartheid and frowned upon).

The inhabitants most definitely get to keep their land, houses, property, etc (otherwise that is considered ethnic cleansing and frowned upon).

You should find the mother of that dead German girl and let her know that her bitch daughter deserved exactly what she got, then.

Nope. Unlike you, I can hold the view that two things are fucked up at the same time. Difficult, I know. But moral consistency is something you clearly have issues with.

Huh. Is apartheid better than ethnic cleansing in the form of expulsion, ethically speaking? I'm honestly asking. Cuz apartheid doesn't seem to have worked well for either side here.