Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congress

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Of course the facts on the ground and the history of the war clearly how that you are wrong, but that has never stopped you from spouting 's.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

So what about "you break it, you bought it"? Say our actions successfully remove Khadaffi. At least one of the rebels I've seen says they don't have anyone leading them. So what happens after that? Another anarchist shithole like Somalia? That would be . The US can have played a role in bringing back Barbary Coast piracy, 200 years after wiping it out.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Don't call it anarchy! That's not real anarchism, man! :hh:

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Dubya claimed from the get go they weren't after the oil. Gee, seemed no on in certain groups wanted to believe him.
Why is it that when Dubya says it, it's a lie but when Obama says it, it's the truth?

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Because he's Black Jesus.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

See post 17.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

The interesting thing is that Bush had a Congressional Resolution authorizing the Iraq war. Obama, has zip, nada, nothing. You'd think the Lib's would be hammering him harder. But then again, that would require honesty from the Libs and we all know how that goes, mostly.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Even with Congressional approval, I seem to recall at least a couple of people in these parts claiming Iraq was an "illegal" war.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

So maybe Oil isn't the primary motivating factor?

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Aren't we all still waiting for Rick to tell us exactly when the US took control of Iraqi territory?

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Did you just change the subject?


Fascinating.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

One of the litany of Democrat complaints regarding Iraq was that we did not send in enough troops to occupy the country at the beginning. Had our goal been to occupy the country in the long term we would have sent in more troops at the start. The original goal of the US invasion was to oust and capture Saddam and turn the country over to the Iraqis asap. The ferocity of the insurgency upset that plan and forced us to mount a full scale occupation.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

I wouldn't expect an answer to that one.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Because it violated international law.

Wait. You think they didn't?

Did you just read a book called "The Opposite of History"?
What about the US trying to delay elections in Iraq and being forced to hold them by Sistani threatening a strike? What about those permanent military bases or the city-sized "embassy" in Baghdad? Those things get airbrushed out, I suppose.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

I find it interesting, Rick, that:

1) You don't want the US to have the most advanced military aircraft.

2) You want the US to help impose a No Fly Zone in Libya and, presumably, to carry on other such actions.

3) You don't want the US to use missiles to destroy the military capabilities of such countries in order to have that No Fly Zone.

4) You have made it clear that the risks to the pilots in all that do not bother you at all.

Do you think you could manage to make it a little more obvious that you desperately want American military personnel to get killed in combat?

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

You have invented this so that you can reach your desired conclusion, one which is pretty despicable I might add.

I've stated that I want the US to do as little as possible in Libya. As far as is practical, operations should be conducted by Europeans with assistance from Arab countries.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Rick, as your posts are becoming ever dumber it's obvious your brain is either fried or dripping out of your ear. I strongly suggest getting to a doctor and getting a CT scan of your head. You might have something modern medicine can cure.

Either way, good job replacing Liet as the village idiot.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Well that's not going to get any US pilots shot down.....that'll never work.
BTW Libyan civilians are just as dead whether killed by Arab/Euros as by the US.

Matter-of-fact I'd venture to say there will be more civilian casualties than there would be if Americans ran the same missions.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

What Arab countries? The Arab League endorsement was a joke. And they're backing off seeing as how Gaddafi is going to likely prevail. The only two countries I know of (as being in the AP) from the Arab world who support you are Qatar and the UAE. And THEIR values are SO much more progressive. As unstable as that unstable region already was to begin with, I'd be quite worried, because Saudi Arabia could occupy the UAE at 06:00 and be home be 12:00, 15:00 at the latest. And if the King of Saudi Arabia feels cornered if this madness spreads to his country he will not hesitate to make a few examples, and YOU can't "afford" to piss him and "his oil wells" off.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Yeah, holding that combatants should shoulder some risk in an effort to minimise the number of civilians that they kill. That's outrageous! Clearly I don't care about them at all!

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Clearly.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

It's an interesting question - what defines a war now. We haven't declared war since 1941, but we've sure as hell fought some. In the modern era there's really a series of delineations, likely brought about by the atom bomb.

War - this is full scale war, involving all assets. Theoretically this opens the door to nuking someone if we feel it's necessary. As that was explicitly the policy of the US since 1950s because of the huge discrepancy in land forces between NATO and the Warsaw Pact. However, Obama changed out policy there, and we now say we will only use nukes if another country nukes us first. We won't even respond with a nuke if we get a biological weapon in a major city.

Resolution of Force - what war used to mean. This is how we fight wars now against less potent enemies where the question is really only over political will.

President's discretion as CINC - if we don't expect large scale land deployments, this is what is used most often. So small scale skirmishes, naval engagements and blockades (hello Cuba), and the no fly zone.

Problem with this system? There's no explicit law behind it. We are just ignoring the Constitution instead of passing the legislation or amendments necessary.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Strictly constitutional or not, there's the reality of passive oversight. If Congress wanted to, they could pass a resolution forbidding Obama to use military force in Libya, and then have strong grounds to impeach him if he continued.

I’m not suggesting that it was the intention of the US to annex Iraq. But we landed troops, toppled the existing government, and ran the show until a new government by Iraqis could be established. In that sense it was our intention to temporarily control the territory.

It was our presence on the ground that led the conspiracy theorists to suppose that were there primarily for the oil. However, I do not think that was the case with Iraq then, or with Libya now.

Yes, that's a concern.

Perhaps Italy is interested in imperializing it again?

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

I'm sure someone has covered this already but:

Wiki is your friend.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

First of all, the 'strictly constitutional or not' is perhaps the single largest problem with the government today. I do concur that if it's not in the Constitution then legislation has to be passed under the power delineated, and if it's not in the powers delineated then it needs to have an amendment. The fact we ignore that all the fucking time means one of the primary checks against the power of the government is gone. That in of itself is a valid reason to reject it's legitimacy.

Secondly, while your second statement is true, it's irrelevant - the democratically controlled senate wouldn't do that unless Obama shot somebody on live TV.

I agree with your thoughts on the Iraq [-]war[/-] joint resolution of force.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

I wouldn't agree with that at all Im afraid. Yes, military power wise, but there is not a hope in hell the western world would stand for any kind of invasion of the UAE. There is far too many western interests, contracts and money tied up in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Quatar for it to be allowed.

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Then Candidate Barack Obama's Q&A with the Boston Globe

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

Yeah, there's two different questions here:

1) should the President be allowed to engage in bombing without congressional authorization? Personally I think the precedent here is yes, which is all the MSM cares about, though Constitutionally it should be no. For example, Jefferson got a joint resolution to bomb Tripoli in 1801 - and by bomb we mean blow the shit out of by naval frigates.

2) Is Obama a hypocrite over the many things he said when he was running for office. There's no interpretation of that which I can see that doesn't come up with 'Yes.'

Re: Obama fired hundreds of cruise missiles at Libya without a joint resolution fron Congr

But, but, but, but... He's a Constitutional Law Professor! Surely he knows this stuff.