I actually agree with this. We have a deficit and debt that is going nuclear and people want us to go occupy syria for the kurds? I would change my mind somewhat if this came after we raised taxes on the rich and corporations to 70%, funded our school systems, got government healthcare for all, upped public assistance programs, made the green new deal, covered our decaying infrastructure, and did a few more internal pro-american spending. Call me cruel, but with all the problems we have, fuck the god damn kurds. I do not give a fuck on middle east bullshit. Sell the kurds some weapons and sanction turkey. Let us make some money instead of pissing it away.
I don't necessarily disagree with this...but that's not why this is so absurd. The absurdity of it comes from the spontenaity of it. He could have gone about this a lot differently if that was really his only intent, or if he had consideration at all to the gravity of this decision. Sure. Let them fight their own fight, but why pull out without any sort of warning? At least give them a chance to prepare for the oncoming slaughter. That alone, makes this a shitty move on his part. It could have been done far differently with the same, less destructive results.
Your problems are all self-inflicted, you piece of shit. That doesn't get you off the hook when it comes to assisting your loyal allies. Go fuck yourself.
It is Twitler. This is what he does. He might reverse himself in an hour. Plus, I doubt he did it for any purpose that is good or decent. Still, I don't disagree with the move. He still should be put in a deep dark cell in a prison.
People used to talk about "Vietnam syndrome." Americans today have Iraq syndrome. The problem is, what is happening in the region are not new developments. We're still living the consequences of 2003. We don't get to wash our hands of it just because things aren't going the way we like.
Sorry, what? I'm sitting on the fence over this troop withdrawal atm because I'll freely admit I don't understand the situation as well as I should, but what I do know is those "allies" did the vast bulk of the heavy lifting in that conflict and painting this as the US having defeated ISIS for them is classic revisionism. Pretending otherwise is entirely disrespectful to the thousands who lost their lives winning that war and allowing the US to be in a position to occupy a strategic territory.
wah wah wah. I pay taxes to the US government, and syria and the kurds are not a part of that. We are not the world police you twat. I will even go along with trump there. Other countries can step up and piss their money and lives away for the kurds. They could not defend or help the US in defense of our land if they wanted to. What sort of allies are that? The useless type. Take any assistance we wanted to give them and give it to Canada or Mexico. We don't need to be traveling half way around the world spending money in wars that will never end because the MIC needs to sell a few more bombs. Oh, and any time you want to help go pick up a gun and go defend your allies. Fight for them if you want, but I don't want to piss money away doing it. We got things to pay for and people dying on our streets for health care and services we could be providing. Instead we use this warmongering bullshit of yours on our overbloated military to play world police for certain people because we call them allies. I give a fuck about dying americans . We come first for taxes and american lives, not some foreign tribe that does not give shit back to us. Any day the global world wants to start contributing for a world police force to stop this then I will consider the use of US resources for a world police farce.
More to chew on: -few people reporting and talking about this have a broad range of actual, factual information (i.e. a clue) -Trump *did* keep the Pentagon in the loop link -Turks told us they are crossing into Syria. We said "no". Turks said 'coming anyway.' Or so it's been reported. -we pulled out our 50-100 guys so when Turks crossed into Syria, our guys wouldn't be at risk of being killed too [war with Turkey? we got a lot of guys elsewhere in Turkey] -long ago Trump said he would pull US troops out of Syria, although many generals told Trump he is wrong; Mattis resigned over this, any claim of "surprise" about this is false or ignorant; Bolton recently left; there was lots of forewarning -we (or Kurds) hold ten thousands of Isis prisoners in the new war zone. Our morality doesn't permit us to execute them, we are thus anchored in Syria [meanwhile, our many long-time "allies" and best friends in Europe have done nothing to help (they already had plans that day, heh); feckless? Europe doesn't care about this region?] -If/when Turks cross into Syria and capture our 'prisons' the prisoners (who want to murder Turks as much as Americans) will probably all be gone within year or two -the Turks (our NATO allies that we are required by treaty to defend) and Kurds (our allies against Isis for > past few years) have been sworn (hated) enemies for at least past 200 years. Turks want the many Syrian refugees in Turkey to return home - a nearby group of Kurds are on the US terrorist list, but they claim to be different -there were candidates other than Trump who would've supported more meddling in the MiddleEast but they didn't win -Russia, Syria, Iraq and Iran have been locked in place in this region, possibly because of our 50-100 US soldiers Full disclosure- I strongly oppose breaking any promises we make to ally. Among other things, I also believe marriage is a two-way promise. Many formerly married people now have ex's. Is it better for US to try to destroy Turkey at economics instead with US armed forces if they massacre this group of Kurds backed by the US. Is it true that we originally entered Syria for just 30 days?
The US shou;ld not have been there in the first place. We did a lot of extra work and made the middle east worse. We did not stop any wars. We did not stabilize the area. It was a terrible idea in the first place, that really was about getting rid of our bombs that were sitting around so the MIC could make some money. We will never win this war without complete occupation and taking over the country to protect them. No one wants to spend that type of money or lives. Sorry, it is either let more americans die in the streets due to preventable reasons, or spend that money on the kurds. The US wrote a huge tax write off to the giant corporations, so go argue with them for the money and lives for the kurds.
I agree, the US should not have been there in the first place and @Quest is on the nose as far as I'm concerned, this is all still fallout from Iraq. Without that war we wouldn't be seeing ISIS, much less ISIS resurgent. However I'm not sure whether it follows that pulling the troops out in this way is a wise move. Making a mistake is one thing, leaving others (others who have done much to earn that aid) to live with the consequences is entirely another and I genuinely don't know how I see the books balancing there in terms of lives first and money a very distant second. Certainly I'm not convinced this is a zero sum game with regards to civilian spending.
First, there will never be a good time for the US pulling out for the weaker allies we support. If we are waiting for a time when war is over in the middle east that will be the day after all human life is wiped off the planet. They are in a violent horrible war with each other. Either we win that war which means locking the whole country down abd ruling it while policing it to imprison all the people who will continue to fight, or we do better things. Second, we made our choice. Wars like this cost billions or trillions and that is not including the lives. We do not have the money because we went and passed huge tax cuts for the rich. No one else is contributing to the US war effort over there. It is not our job no matter how many of them died in a fight for their country. Third, this is their country. In the end if the fighting ended, the kurds won, and syria belonged to them the next step would be to start demanding their ally piss off and kick us out of their country while pretending they don't know us because the kurds would consider being allied with the US corruption and a danger to their sovereign rule. Anyone remember Libya and how we helped them win their freedom and how they did not want to know us afterwards? That is the gratitude we can expect from our allies if they win. They love us when they can leach off of us and as soon as they win it is FU US infidels. Really, giving it a few extra days only means Turkey has more time to prepare. The Kurds are already in their bunkers and on defense. Really, spending billions and american lives just so @14thDoctor can get his war boner on because he cannot bring himself to actually punch a Nazi is a waste.
Of course, that is what motivates trump. Perhaps if the kurds weren't such cheapskates they might have gotten more support. I never said trump was doing it for the right reason, only that he is doing the right thing. Oh, and benefit of all of this is it will certainly piss of his warmongering red hats in the military.
Nobody wants us to occupy Syria. We aren't occupying Syria. The Syrian government is occupying Syria. We've got a handful of Special Forces there training the Kurds and acting as a disincentive for Turkey to annihilate them. As far as money is concerned, it's statistically nothing...especially compared to Afghanistan and Iraq. The money we save by pulling out wouldn't amount to anything.
Of course we are not occupying. Quit being intellectually dishonest and claiming I said we were because you want to make a dayton point. I said the only way to stop the war would be for us to take over and occupy them while ruling with an iron fist. Even then there would still be battles. If you are going to argue, don't be a fucking dayton. Thanks a bunch.
It was a superpower using a local power to win a war then breaking their promises which led to the situation in Palestine. The Kurds have paid dearly in ways money cannot compensate and they're going to pay more.
You literally said, "We have a deficit and debt that is going nuclear and people want us to go occupy syria for the kurds?" Where did you say that? ...and what war? The war is over. The Caliphate is no more.
Good response from a Democrat asked about this (since the Dems have historically backed not getting bogged down in the Middle East) is that it could have been done but better i.e. make Turkey's membership of NATO a condition of not attacking the Kurds.
This. I've been struggling to reconcile my desire to see Western forces out of the Middle East with the apparent betrayal inherent in this move. The problem isn't necessarily that the troops are being removed, but rather that it is happening in such a slipshod manner with no contingencies in place or consideration for the consequences for every party involved.
The Caliphate is only a series of jailbreaks away from coming back. I wonder how many Westerners will die once a resurgent ISIS starts inspiring terrorist attacks like it did the first time around.
I was addressing the assholes like Tererun and T.R. that value Western lives (and Western money) over Kurdish lives, you idiot child.
So what you are saying is we need to kill all of ISIS so we can be safe from them? There is something a little genocidal about that and I just cannot figure out what it is. You are such a cowardly fuck. You are so worried about people thousands of miles away who couldn't spit on you if tyhey wanted to, and you have still yet to punch a Nazi. However, you want everyone else to fight a war for you. Dig a fucking hole and bury your cowardly little ass in it until you can do something for yourself. Oh, and fuck the kurds. They are not our allies. They are people conveniently using our lives and money to protect themselves from the actions of their past. They won't help us if they win, so I am not up for helping them. We have real people over here which the 14th is happy to let die in the gutter so we can help people thousands of miles away.
yep! And we save money and resources by not needing so many support troops because the Kurds provide security/force protection and other services. Some general (I think) was on NPR talking about what a win-win partnership we had. Yeah this could upset the apple cart no doubt about it.
Wow. Wow. Just to clarify, which people do you think aren't "real" people in this situation? Take your time answering, since you're going back on ignore after I hit the "post reply" button.
Uh yeah, that's exactly what we need to do. ISIS isn't a nation or ethnic group. It's a terrorist death cult. The only good one is a dead one.
