Can Kids Consent to Hormone Blockers?

Right, ok thank you - I think I understand what you're saying. And apologies if you found the language loaded, it wasn't my intention - my basic understanding is male gametes = biological male; female gametes = biological female which is why I used that terminology. I'm not particularly well versed

The thing is, I understand true dysphoria is rare, and a dysphoric transwoman is no more dangerous to a cis woman than another cis woman. But I want to know how we solve this issue of saying that sex/gender is important and unimportant at the same time and how this consequently impacts societal contracts. If gender identity and differences between males and females wasn't a thing, then you wouldn't have transitions in the first place if you see what I mean. But if there are differences, and one group is at a disadvantage from the other, then how do you legislate for that without defining it in the first place? To me, it's not really a case of preventing anyone from having rights but making sure we all understand the terms.

Dickynu wonders why I came in and lit things up, and I agree it becomes so tiring to just have to play nice when people spout dumb ass shit about the trans community.

One of the reasons I am hugely forgiving of the anger of other races is it is hard to deal with dumb fucking people spouting shit in your face. Of course they are going to be loud and pissed many times and I just wish I could take that hurt away or help carry it.

the law needs proper terms. The law probably has proper terms. That does need to apply at a certain point. We do need to recognize that having a history of being trans is still quite a negative thing so people are going to try to hide it because other people will abuse them for it. One of the thing right wing doctors are complaining about is that they are being forced to treat trans people with more respect, or lose their jobs in a national system that needs to serve them. Then they are going to try and excuse their bigotry with anecdotes about trying to actually care for people. That is what they are doing right now. It is not that trans treatments are harming children, it is that they have been forced to give trans treatments to children so they are trying to discredit it.

When you look at the numbers and system you see that trans treatments have been fought for against this opposition. There is not forcing people onto the trans path because you have to fight to be there every step of the way. Every step along the way someone is questioning whether you really mean it. That is what these right wing liars leave out of what they tell you. They are actually being told to shut up because they have been denying this diagnosis at the expense of their patients since the beginning.

Two of the sources I quoted were BBC and Guardian, standard news sources neither of which are right-wing and the Guardian is positively left-wing. I've not shouted anything either, I've asked for opinions on my understanding. I can't control how you assign my motivation, and given the level of abuse you've thrown, I'm not sure I'm even arsed what you think.

I'm not familiar with the word "TERF", and whether it's a self-descriptor or just a term of abuse but on the face of it, whether one agrees or not, the position that transexuals ought not just to be regarded as "the same" as natural-born women seems to me to be a legitimate position for someone to hold, which shouldn't be subject to automatic attack and silencing.
Reflexively labelling everything that doesn't agree entirely with your analysis as "anti-trans hate speech" is to seek to win this debate not on its merits but by default - because you won't let anyone else speak.
It also lets those spouting genuine hate speech off the hook, by muddying the waters about what that is.

"Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist" is what I've heard it means.

Yeah, and google tells me that there's some squabble around who it applies to and whether it's meant as an insult, a quagmire I have no particular interest in wading into.

Let us get into the situation again. A legitimate trans person in the bathroom is there to relieve themselves like everyone else. If someone peeping or assaulting people in the bathroom that is wrong and needs to be addressed. The easily opened door to the bathroom is not stopping anyone from going in and raping people. If someone is in there acting the wrong way it is time to call the police on them. No one has any problem with that. A trans person is also going to go along with the bathroom rules because they do not want people looking at their junk and outing them. I have been there in the ladies room. I do not like it because there are children bopping all over the fucking place and I felt like I would be exposed by them. I just want to piss. If some dude is peeping around the stalls in a dress and I see him, he just fucked up and I am beating his ass out of the ladies room because I do not want that bullshit. When the cop comes to see who is the pervert doing the wrong thing I want to clearly be the opposition to his bullshit. I am pretty sure ramming his peeping eyes up his asshole expresses that in no uncertain terms.

I am actually cool with combat sport safety regulation. For the small number of trans women who might feel bad for being excluded from rankings over this, that is part of gender dysphoria. But it stops there. If a sport has to do some minute regulations in it's own lane then let it be argued based on the rules and regulations that are already present. I do not see any reason to deny trans woman in women's curling. I also recognize we are at that time when these arguments are being made so make them based on the sport and knowledge of it. Maybe we should not be dividing the genders in certain sports.

As for certain TERF concerns, come backed up with reason, logic, and science. I actually agree that a trans woman cannot take the place of having a cis woman involved in things. That trans person may be a better place holder than a cis man, but you should strive to bring cis women in because their menstruation and ability to carry children will bring a unique perspective needed for half of society. TERFs can stay out of the trans experience, and just because you might see a penis in your locker room does not violate your universe.

I will admit that trans inmates pose an interesting problem in prison society. This is more because of the restricted sexual activity of prison. When you suppress sexual activity you create mental dysfunction. This is also a very specific lane where the difference between prison and regular society makes it so that you really have to treat them as separate because the same solutions and stressors are not present in both environments. If you want to discuss those as separate issues then bring your concerns up separately. Let us not pretend cis female inmates with trans inmates are the same as a locker room with both together in the free world.

The reason they are prescribed them is that it reduces the gender dysphoria they feel because they do not develop the characteristics of the wrong gender. They are actually prescribed to relieve the symptoms.

WTF is wrong with you? That logically does not make any sense. If you gave someone puberty blockers or HRT and it made them feel worse they would stop taking them.

Dont pay attention to Tererun. A complete moron who will decide you represent some absurd position based on absolutley nothing, and then present it in a wall of text. You will be lucky to find anyone who takes tererun seriously.

OK, I am tapping out for a time. I have to do other things aside from educate the dolts.

You are just angry because i am smarter than you.

Ego's a hell of a drug.

Whatever the fuck that means.

You got me.

It brought a bit of entertainment over breakfast...

So taking that argument to it's logical extension, we shouldn't have safe spaces for sexual assault victims. After all, there's no difference between men and women in rape statistics...

Oh, wait.

Disingenuous bullshit.

And again with the bathroom BS which I never once stated and have repeatedly stated isn't my point.

Again, disingenuous bullshit.

So they should allow men in if the man simply affirms he's a woman. And virtually all sexual abuse shelters are single sex shelters.

Literally nothing I said indicated the problem was with transwomen in the shelter. This is about men in a women's sexual abuse shelter. It's an obvious loophole that at some point will be exploited, so it probably should be closed.

So, once again you aren't talking about what I'm talking about. I do believe transwomen should have access to sexual abuse shelters.

But because those shelters are virtually always single gender we should continue to engage in those protections if people with male sexual characteristics are attempting to enter them by requiring them to show they are in the process of transition or at least have gender dysphoria.

Why is that such an insurmountable burden?

You and I aren't even talking about the same thing, as you've clearly shown. So answer what I'm actually saying, as opposed to your reactionary dogma.

Or I could look at all the potential issues and advocate for better safety across the board. One of those safety issues is to grant sexual abuse survivors a safe space where they are less likely to be afraid - or victimized.

Why would you deny them that?

Oh, right, overt self-interest, that you might have to show a note from your doctor.

Completely and utterly disingenuous.

The ask is only that they provide medical notice that they are somewhere along the arc of transition, even if it's just a notice that they are undergoing gender dysphoria.

How does that block any genuine trans person from accessing these shelters?

You need to argue with what I am saying, and not what you wish I was saying. I would actually say we need more and better shelter for women and their children along with the trans community. Some of the problems with our present efforts occur because they are so underfunded that they create other opportunities for failure in many areas, not just this one. Again, this is why I support the establishment of decent individual secure shelter across countries which could be used for this purpose, and for things like disaster relief and migration. Just because a shelter is not at present an ideal situation does not mean it does not help people.

If the person is presenting as a woman then yes they should be allowed in. It is not that person's fault the shelter is lacking in resources. If the person breaks the rules of the shelter then they should be expelled. The same way if a person starts acting badly in a bathroom. If you think there should be more privacy and security in shelters, you are on the same page with transgendered people. If you think people should not be abusing others in shelters, we are all on the same page. A trans person does not go to a shelter to abuse people. A criminal goes to a shelter to abuse people and none of us have any problems with locking that criminal up for their abuses even if they might happen to be a trans person at some point.

For all that should be happening in a shelter, a trans woman is a female. There is no proper interaction within the shelter where a trans woman having a penis endangers anyone else in the shelter. Just having a penis in the vicinity of women is not sexual assault. You are trying to say it is the same thing. You are being intellectually dishonest here. A trans woman in a shelter needs just as much protection from abusers as a cis woman does. They are both there for the same reason. The trans woman is not there to rape and abuse a cis woman with her potential penis. When you imply that is the case you are making a bold faced lie.

Because we do not fund shelters with the resources to do that. Shelters have to make do with what they have in resources, and to help the most people they should include trans women with cis women as there is no abuse inherent in that situation. You are making shit up. You are pretending it is abusive for women in shelters to be around male genetalia when no one is attacking them with it.

And whammo! your argument is done. I have wiped it the fuck out and now you are trying to put the shit back together. This is not because life is unfair, or i have somehow cheated. You were just wrong. It probably happens all the time even though you hate to admit it.

The sad lack of resources for abused people denies them a safe place. To put trans people out of shelters because it makes you sad would be denying them shelter. You are just trying to use victims to abuse other victims you do not like, and that is pretty fucking shitty if you ask me. You are saying we have to hurt and abuse trans people because of abused women.

Just admit you want to abuse trans people and you might feel better. You won't be better, but you will not be making as much effort to seem like a decent person.

because when you are dealing with a person trying to get into a shelter they will be unlikely to have such a thing, and you fucking know it. The person is coming into a shelter. If they had the money to transition and be safe and have doctor's notes then they probably would not need a shelter.

You are being a sick fuck.

OMG you mean the mainstream conservative UK news is not trans explanatory and you might want to check into more depth before you go insulting people online?

Thank you for putting your ignorance on me. I do apologize for giving it back to you as your fault for not being educated, but perhaps you might want to look some shit up before you speak about it. Just a thought. I am sorry that your obvious lack of knowledge has caused me to view you as a dumbfuck, but it is just what I do when presented with idiocy on your level. Perhaps next time you don't spout right wing shallow bullshit talking points about something that might hurt others. Some of us are tired of having to educate every entitled fucking karen we come across. It makes us grumpy, and it is not our responsibility to make you a better and worthwhile person.

Are you happy now, because I have more. Now do go play with your fuckwit friends. I think dickynu is sucking garamet's clit, so you might want to announce yourself before getting too close.

Yet another internet moron.

@Tererun, sorry, but you’re being so bloody dull. I’m really not interested in your posts because they’re littered with passé 2010-era flaming and trolling and you actually don’t seem to give a shit about discussing anything. You’re boring and yes, you think I’m an asshole. I get the message and I can’t say I’m moved by it. If you’re fed up of explaining? Then... don’t. Do yourself a favour. @Nova has given better value posts anyway.
Your thinly veiled misogyny hasn’t gone unnoticed either

Careful there, Summerteeth, you're dealing with Wordforge's "master troll."

CALL OUT THREAD! CALL OUT THREAD! POST THE PM'S!

Thanks for coming in here and shitting on trans people because you are stupid and need a personal invite to be a decent person. I will let our present karen @garamet know she has competition for the role. Do you need a manager?

HTH and HAND.

Oh, and good guess but the time is more the mid to late 90's. I was doing this shit on usenet and dial up BBS.

I've not been "shitting on trans people". And I know you don't like it, but you don't have the monopoly on discussions about gender because you're trans, either. I'm still open to civil discussion if you think it's worth it but if you don't then you go ahead and pop off on one, love. I'm not much into histrionics tho, so I'll probably ignore it.

Well... great? You're a middle-aged troll with a stale repertoire? Are you wanting me to give you congratulations or should I recoil with cringe?

Shut up @Tererun your making a cunt of yourself again. Reload the drugs or sleep them off.

Clown!

It has an acronym, so it must be serious business.

From Wikipedia:



IOW, TERFs are the same radical feminists that everyone else hates.

"TERF" is an acronym for Trans Exclusionist Radical Feminist and these twats--usually from privileged backgrounds--also skew to be against bisexual women who date men and push for anti-sex work laws. More than one I've run into on Twitter supported white supremacy.

They're bad hombres in faux progressive packaging.

Also, what Jenee said. Pretty much every bad faith take you've heard in the 90s of feminist saying porn is sex slavery to women and whatever ridiculous shit can be traced back to them.