Caitlyn Jenner: No to trans girls in girls' sports

Thanks for the input, @Nova.

Well, it was really - the point I made was in response to interest in circumnavigating the issue of gender by basing classes on build instead, so effectively having a mixed event.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a natal woman, or MtF woman, it’s likely ANY woman will still be out-performed by men and wiped off record books in many sports in those circumstances. So, I don’t think “by build” is a very good solution as it removes female achievements.
I wasn’t really responding to trans women competing in a women’s class, I don’t know enough about that.

It does depend on the sport and what level you are playing. In high school we had a voleyball tournament every year for all; the kids with mixed teams. Me and a couple of my friends entered an all male team. I was not out at the time. 4 of our team actually played twice a week in an adult league. Our school had a girls volyball team who entered the tournament. We got fucking wasted by the girls team even though we had some skill and we were taller and stronger over all. We could get up above them and spike harder than they could, and we could set each other because we had practice. They mauled us because they found the one unskilled idiot who could not control his strength and each serve he would return the ball into the ceiling. Once they found that out we were done. They could control their hits and send the ball to the unskilled people. This gave them the victory every time even with the more athletic male teams entering the competition.

My mother played in competative leauges in bowling and vollyball for years despite being shorter and less strong as most of the male players. This is because even as a rec player she had the control and skill to counter the competition and was extremely valuable to the teams she played on. She was not an insanely good women's bowler, but she was consistent and could be relied on to come through with a boost in games when it was needed. Through things like handicaps strength got worked out of the equation to skill.

Games like track and field where you are pushing the extreme abilities of physical prowess in a singular run might be an area where a trans athlete who has had some development with testosterone might gain an advantage, but that really comes at the top level of competition where 99 percent of people, and that includes trans people, are not at. The competative cis female is going to out perform the non-competative cis male in these areas. Team sports become an area where teamwork will often eliminate large gaps in physical ability even in your everywhere high school competition.

Most of the high school gym games should have both genders competing against each other because they are not contact sports. Things may be different on some of the extra curricular sports where a school may be competing at the top tier of competition. Even there you have things like tryouts. If the trans female is performing at a male level maybe they should be on the male team. If it is mixed teams then it does not matter. Maybe it is a matter of looking at the individual player in a try out to see where their skill level will help the team. Maybe there should be some cis girls playing on the boys team because their skill and ability is better than the boys who try out.

A flat out ban becomes so blunt it is not effective at being fair. It really is just bigots being bigots.

yeah I was thinking about professional level, and the records as a result. I don’t think it matters so much where results and raising funding from that doesn’t matter so much if you see what I mean.

I also think visibility of women in professional sport is really important as it inspires and motivates girls to participate in physical activities too.

I can get the discussion of fairness in top end things, but the right equating that with some trans high school kids getting to play games with their peers is not even close to the same thing. The banning of trans kids from high school sports is not protecting some sanctity of sports fairness on the champion or even ameteur level of sorts. It is high school kids playing with their peers, not some tryout for the olympics or pro sports.

People like @oldfella1962 and the right are grasping onto their hatred and making this out to be something it isn't because when you say it is just kids in gym class playing with each other, or some after school activities everyone can participate in everyone sees it for what it is. It is a bunch of kids of vastly different levels playing a game, and the exclusion of trans kids is just adults trying to be cruel.

To @oldfella1962 and the Caitlin jenner republican bigots, if you want to regulate professional sports then regulate professional sports. None of the kids playing on high school teams are professional sports players. Don't make the laws abusing kids when you should be messing with pro-sports people. Go see how their high paid lawyers like you sticking your nose into their business with your political bigotry and bullying.

sorry, I'm not afraid of trans people nor do they disgust me. That said they are not exactly on my radar because I've never ran across any AFAIK in real life.

Huh? How is discussing the subject "losing their shit" over something?

You are racist and transphobic. You are illustrating your transphobic nature by running around being all scared of trans girls in high school games. That is being afraid. Glomming onto the idea that you need to be afraid from a trans idiot does not change the fact that you are scared of the trans girls.

Like always you are clue resistant and not self aware. Sorry OF but you have shown yourself to be a transphobe. Maybe next time a trans girl tries to play games in high school you don't freak the fuck out like this. Maybe then we won't think you are scared of trans girls.

because you are not discussing, you are trying to ban them. That is not discussing how they can work and play together. Banning is the end of a discussion. Again, you are flipping your lid instead of discussing how it can be done.

Open water swimming generally doesn't have gender categories, for one. Also, height and weight don't predict much.

The set of gills that every transgender person gains upon taking HRT doesn't do much either, and should be completely ignored.

Also, Dryland is a myth.

Are there suddenly thousands of transgendered people trying to gain an advantage in sports based on their gender transition? Why the sudden concern for this? Seems more like another transphobic boogeytransman the right is all hot and bothered by ("transgender men are PEEING in front of your DAUGHTERS!!").

Also, even if it is occurring, what does it even fucking matter? People care way too much about sports.

You know what will make me interested in a conversation about transitioning transgender women elbowing all other women out of women's sports?

Some sort of evidence that it's actually happening.

The real question is how you would act on that evidence. Would it even matter?

There's at least one, possibly.
https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections...-rachel-mckinnon-defends-title-in-manchester/

I'm not trying to ban trans in sports. I said right from the beginning - a few months ago or so whenever the trans in sports subject came up - that I want to see everyone allowed to compete, just make it fair for everyone involved in sports.

How many other women has she elbowed out?

One data point does not a statistic make.

I am starting to get a little tired of all the sports talk.

What about the trans women and men who just want to be able to work as their gender?Could we maybe get something done about the reality that it is hard to get a job and survive because of the prejudice in society?

I'm sure @Uncle Albert will be along any minute to lecture us on hypocrisy.

That's, practically, what they did to Castor Semora (I'm sure I misspelled that)

OF's chat-up line, folks.

The game is not poker, but Solitaire.

as many activists, both for trans people and for women's sports, have pointed out:

Literally NONE of the politicians and pundits who are claiming that they are "saving women's sports" have ever taken even the most casual stand for requiring equal funding for female athletics, or equal access to facilities, or even calling for, say, ESPN to elevate women's sports on their schedule to the level of mens (for example, in NCAA basketball tournaments)

None of them came out strong for the women's national soccer team to be payed equally to the men. There exists no issue where women's sports are shorted which these folks have added their influence....

except when given the chance to trash trans people.

I can't help but feel that most folk who identify as female couldn't give a fuck about sports.

Cane here to post this.

I can't even fake shock at this one.

statistically true ("most") but not universally.

Particularly to this issue, kids usually have a more rational view of sports in the high school setting than parents do. The latter can lean way into "wemustwingoddamnit!" whereas the kids mainly are just interested in the social unit that forms around team sports, it's all the other things BESIDES winning.
THAT is what these bigots are taking away from kids. And they know full well what they are doing, it's not about "fairness" it's about the long co-ordinated deliberate strategy to make ALL trans people social pariahs.

Co-sign

Just saw some highlights on Twitter of Hannity's softball interview with Jenner

She's literally complaining about the poors from her private aircraft hanger

Very on brand for a Republican, most impressive