China news, memes, and shitposts

Lets baseline this then.

You've agreed with the comment that they were "on the verge" of economic "collapse". And those arguing that they've destroyed or eliminated most of their intellectuals. Elsewhere you shared the view that they've already suffered a reduction of 11% in GDP relative to the United States.
Can we agree that these claims are, at least excessively hyperbolic?

This post has some reasonable points, but the starting point has to be reality.

Yes, let's talk about reality for a bit, shall we?

China doesn't have a single stock exchange, it has three. The Shenzen, the Shanghai, and the Hang Seng, aka the Hong Kong. The largest by value by a huge amount is the Hong Kong index. Over the last three years it's fallen in half.



The other two are down by a third.





You of course posted the Shanghai, the smallest indices, the one that's taken the least amount of hits, and posted it over the life of the indices. Yes, the US stock exchange is doing very well over the life of the exchange too - but success is measured on how it's doing relative to the last few years.

This is about the same performance than the US faced during the financial crisis in 2007-2008 that was considered an existential crisis in the West that threatened to bring the entire world economy down with it. And that lasted only about 6 months before it started trending upward again.

Now, is China's economy solely the stock market? No, that's an indicator but it's not the full extent.

So what else does China's economy say right now?

It's demographics are at the beginning of a huge implosion, the likes of which no country has seen since the Mongols were wiping out entire populations. Over the next 50 years they are projected to lose 500 million from their population.

It's real estate market is hugely overvalued, not working on market evaluation at all, and it's biggest real estate corporation has failed, and the next two biggest are state owned. A property crisis is certainly possible - and due to harsh regulations 70% of Chinese household wealth is tied to the property market. A crash there could devastate their middle class.

For the first time in the last 40 years Western investment has not only slowed, it's moving out of China.

Chinese labor costs are soaring. Mexico just became the largest importer to the US, not China. The demographic decline is going to make that much, much worse over time.

China has entered into deflation, which means that people aren't going to purchase as much, as they expect the prices to go down. Good for consumers, horrible for the economy.

All of this is going to put strain on an autocratic system, which itself is becoming more authoritarian, and yes according to numerous reports is cashiering or 're-educating' much of the bureaucracy that makes the government work at the exact worst time.

Oh, and unlike the US, they still account on foreign sources for nearly 3/4 of their oil.

We aren't going to see the 'Chinese Century' play out like so many predicted in the early 2000s.

And yes, it's quite possible we see large scale implosion. There's a reason that so many countries are leaving China, and what once was considered long term stability is no longer assumed.

Yes, Rick is at the point where objective reality is 'dumb.' LOL.

Here Ricky, I'll go you tit for tat.

Shanghai is the largest of the indicies. I'm done wasting time with you.

Uh huh. And my other 10 points? The ones that are in every western paper looking at the issue, and are common knowledge? And no, that doesn't change the fact that stocks are tanking in China, the Chinese government is doing it's normal authoritarian thing and trying to censor that fact, and Chinese people are literally coming to the US state department's social media pages to beg the US to intervene.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/chi...st-into-wailing-wall-stock-plunge-2024-02-04/

Oh, and this glorious stock market is also being heavily propped up by the PRC directly buying up stocks to try to support the prices.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/asi...team-wont-save-spiralling-markets-2024-02-05/

But yeah, Reuters is known as a far right source.

Hey, maybe China can get some more forced labor out of the Uyghurs to turn it all around.

Uh-huh indeed. In case anyone else might be misled by this, just to confirm. Shanghai is the largest stock market in China, the largest in Asia and the third largest in the world.

The post above attempts to portray two other Chinese stock markets as larger.
But it actually directly shows Shenzhen to be smaller.
And Hong Kong is denominated in Hong Kong dollars, not Yuan - so that comparison requires a conversion. After which it is also seen to be smaller.

So like I said, I won't be wasting my time checking the veracity of ten other points that you make. What did Steve Bannon call it? Flooding the zone with shit?

Yes, Steve Bannon and Reuters are exactly the same. What a maroon. LOL.

Here's CNN, today:

And

These things aren't only being talked about by Western analysts, but also within China itself - as much as the authoritarian government allows them to be.

It also speaks to China's authoritarian response and raiding of Western companies as driving Western market outflow.

I know, I know, Jacobin and the World Socialist Website aren't covering this. So it doesn't exist to you.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/25/economy/china-stock-rout-global-investors-intl-hnk/index.html

And the difference between you and me is when I make a mistake I admit to it. That's called integrity. You should look it up sometime. When have you ever acknowledged your bullshit? Hell, I found a link more than a decade ago where you were denying yet another genocide. What are the odds? Just fucking amazing.

As to my mistake, that didn't even change the point - the BEST Chinese stark market is down nearly a third over the last three years. The Hong Kong index isn't a minor one, it's the 9th largest in the world. It's down half. Yes, the world is noticing that the Chinese even with massive purchase of stocks by the national government are still unstable, and that's causing further instability.

The CCP had a seat on their board, it's legitimate for Tom Cotton to be asking these type of questions.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china-facing-us-financial-crisis-234945940.html

China is facing the US financial crisis 'on steroids' as the real estate market collapses, famed hedge fund boss says

Highlights: Virtually every public real estate developer has now defaulted on their debts.

Just 2 companies, Evergrande and Country Garden, have $500 billion in debt. The US lost $800 billion all told in the 2008 financial crisis.

Chinse banks are now 2-3 times more overextended than US banks were in that crisis.

Local governments are taking large hits because they've been financing their budgets through selling real estate to land developers. Who now can't buy those properties.

"The basic architecture of the Chinese economy is broken," Bass summarized.