Boeing 737 MAX 8

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by We Are Borg, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. tafkats

    tafkats scream not working because space make deaf Moderator

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    Does this "defer to the experts" philosophy apply to experts in Australia, Austria, Belgium, China, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, New Zealand, Sweden, Switzerland, the UAE, the UK, and a dozen or so others, or just to Americans?
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  2. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    "Boing to make key changes in cockpit software" doesn't exactly give me a warm fuzzy. :brood: Maybe it's just my bad luck but "new" software doesn't make it "better" software. Changed/new software comes with it's own glitches and the words "damn! I've never seen it do this before" are the famous last words I wouldn't want to hear if my family members are involved. :bergman: Just sayin'
  3. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

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    Of course he has, he's flown out of state to avoid a hit and run charge.
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  4. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    The Super Max was the result of a choice by Boeing: save huge $ by upgrading the existing 737, even though the only way to do it was by repositioning the wings and compensating for the change in handling with auto trim. According to a couple of articles I've seen, Boeing wanted to avoid the mess they had by going off a clean sheet with the 787. Regardless of the outcome of the outcome of the current investigation I'm wondering if Boeing is going to end up having to go with a clean sheet design for a 737 replacement anyway, thus getting hit on both ends...sunk costs on the 737 Super Max and the development costs of a new 797.
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  5. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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  6. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    I saw on the news that a number of veteran pilots have talked about natural flying skills among pilots have declined a great deal thanks to so much automation in modern cockpits.
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  7. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    You know why they named the company Boeing?

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  8. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Oversimplified. American (and I would bet Canadian) pilots tend to come up with far more flying hours than a lot of foreign pilots. They may start with Civil Air Patrol, sail planes, RC planes, work their way through military piloting careers and build up a huge amount of experience that leads to the kind of "instinctive" reactions that helped Capt. Sullenberger pull off the "Miracle on the Hudson". Contrast that with the Korean Airlines tail dragger incident in San Francisco. The pilots didn't have that kind of background. The Air France disaster shows that they weren't fully trained to the point where they "instinctively" knew how to handle the situation.
    Despite the effort to put it into a bumper sticker type of slogan, it's more complicated than that.
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  9. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Trump just announced that once all the Max models in the air have landed, they will be grounded TFN.
  10. steve2^4

    steve2^4 Aged Meat

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    Oh good. A professional finally handled it.
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  11. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    To be fair about it, Trump's announcement was measured, calm and appropriate. Maybe his best moment as president. :diacanu:
  12. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    So the guy who may have caused the problem (delay in software upgrades due to government shutdown) is now the guy trying to look like a saviour?

    :shep:
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  13. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I am going to have to give trump some credit on this one. If the planes had a huge problem before the shutdown that causes crashes they should not have been flying in the first place, and the shutdown did not cause the problem to begin with. I also have to say I really doubt any other president would have grounded these planes and sent a message that boeing had made unsafe planes to begin with. Their corporate overlords would have never let such a message be sent out. There is no way Clinton (either one), Bush (either one), Reagan, or Obama would have ever had the nerve to do this sort of thing without huge amounts of evidence the jets were unsafe, and even then they would have probably just put out a warning and let people fly in them anyway.

    In this case he came out on the side of safety and when even twitler realizes your jets are flying death traps you fucked up big time.
  14. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    I am thinking this may be evidence of pod people.
  15. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    are you chet from weird science?

    [​IMG]
  16. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    More likely an early attempt at Lisa where they used the National Enquirer instead of a skin mag.
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  17. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    So basically chet

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  18. We Are Borg

    We Are Borg Republican Democrat

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    According to @Marso, apparently the FAA now don't qualify as experts either. :shrug:
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  19. oldfella1962

    oldfella1962 the only real finish line

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    wait a minute - the jet is actually named Super Max? Why do you name a jet after a prison? :unsure:
  20. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Because it often involves a death sentence?
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  21. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Trump privately disparaged the 737 in discussion with officials over the issue, saying "it sucks", comparing it negatively to the 757 that is his own private jet and saying he would have never bought it for his (failed) airline Trump Shuttle, which admittedly only nosedived once.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...5b8d80a1e4f_story.html?utm_term=.4463c38c5563

    This is despite saying that "maybe" he didn't have to make the decision to ground the model.
  22. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Uhh, point to where I said that? I said YOU didn't know jack shit. And now 'the experts' have made a decision to ground the planes- and done so.

    Personally, I think they were less worried about the planes themselves and more about the optics after EVERYONE ELSE went and did it. :shrug:
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  23. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    Or more concerned about plummeting Boeing stock's effect on :hail: The Market than on human lives.
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  24. Ten Lubak

    Ten Lubak Salty Dog

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    Predictably, this post didn't hold up very well
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  25. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

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    Well, Marso's bosses seem to think fuck the optics, let's pile on Boeing some more because they done fucked up good:

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  26. MikeH92467

    MikeH92467 RadioNinja

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    Bloomberg reports that Lion Air has cancelled $22 billion worth of Boeing orders and switched over to the A-321. This strengthens my opinion that Boeing will have to offer up an entirely new replacement for the 737.
  27. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  28. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    I hope that's good news. Wasn't it the Airbus that had a tendency to blow off the rear doors on flights to Hawai'i? I've flown with them since, but I dunno what's safe anymore.

    Now, some genius trot out the old "You're far more likely to die in a MVA than in a plane" screed. :garamet:
  29. garamet

    garamet "The whole world is watching."

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    From your article:

    Uh-huh. Color me surprised. :garamet:
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  30. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Hmm. The FAA is a government organization. They rarely make a 'safety decision' until there is a body count to justify it. This latest case is merely the latest- the difference being that the 'body count' wasn't officially a 'U.S.' body count. Hence the delay, and the inevitable cave after the rest of the world led the way.

    The FAA walks a fine line between being the aviation safety organ of the U.S. Government and having to guard the sanctity of U.S. based businesses in terms of aviation and aeronautical engineering. Like all other organs of government, they are subject to lobbying, congressional influence, and foreign influence. As such, they are inherently corrupt as are all government organs.

    Bottom line: nobody's an angel, and as always, look to your own ass and don't depend on the government to do it for you. All that aside, you can get on a 737-Max-8 in the USA TOMMORROW and be two orders of magnitude safer than you were driving to the airport in the first place- and I'd back that with my own ass, either in the pilot's seat or riding in the back. I know how to counter an auto-trim malfunction in any airplane, and I guarantee after this that every U.S. super-8 pilot is spring loaded to the proper response if there's a problem. Hell, on that basis alone they are probably the safest airplane flying right now- if they were flying.
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