Bombing in Syria in Response to Chemical Attack

(Best way to make @Dayton3 leave the thread...)

Just a reminder: You made the claim; you need to back it up. Otherwise, it's fake news.

Tucker Carlson showed quotes of Graham and Dean calling for a major war against Assad on his show approximately nine minutes ago.

By the way, Carlson apparently doesn't believe the Assad regime carried out the attacks and is warning against getting involved in a major regime changing war in Syria, so his mentioning Graham and Dean are arguments against his own position which lends lots of credibility to them.

So it should be really easy for you to post links.

Of course not. Republicans did not trust President Obama to wage a war.

Because -?

I don't remember though considering President Obama and Congress gutted military spending I would say he was hardly a friend to our armed forces.

Another one of your fake news propaganda "I don't remember" screeds.

You're the best friend the peace movement ever had.

Someone is triggered. I come from New York, and it is impossible to grow up there and not know any Jews. I also know many Jews who do not support Israel or Zionism. Just because a couple of Jews are Zionists does not mean they all are. I am not terribly sure why the fact that Israel has acted so terribly and has used chemical weapons on defenseless people simply for living is bothering you so much. It is war, and Israel acts like most countries in assuming a sub human nature of their opponents and doing atrocities on them. Facepalming and dumb repping does not change history for the confederacy, the Nazis, or the Zionists.

This line of thinking was offensive when I first heard it and remains so today.

The implication that Jews and Israelis are one and the same is ignorant. The implication that all Jews support the actions of Israel is ignorant. The idea that people who questions the actions of Israel, which includes Jews, are anti-semites is ignorant because it not only conflates politics with ethnicity and religion, it also means that anyone such as myself, who is Jewish or of Jewish heritage, most be part of some kind of Jewish hive mind who all blindly endorse whatever Israel does and are staunch believers in Zionism. That's pretty offensive and unintentionally bigoted. It's like saying that being a Muslim means that you are not only an anti-semite by default but it means you are fully behind the actions of all Muslim nations of the world, irrespective of their interpretations of Islam, or like saying that a Catholic will blindly support the Holy See in whatever it does.

While some opponents of Israel will indeed also be anti-semites, we really need to get away from the intellectually limited idea that any critic of Israel to any degree is by default an anti-semite. Israel's actions are not and should not be beyond criticism even if you support a two state solution like I do and most countries do.

Well I am, so what am I then if I do not support the land grabs?

Sorry, but the "we're happy for two states" is a gross simplification of the Israeli approach. Anyone who is honest and does their research will show that there are human rights abuses going on and that makes it very hard to support the idea that Israel has the moral high ground. Neither side does quite frankly.

I don't even know where to start with this pile of lies and bullshit. What about Jews living in their homeland makes you so mad? When are you going to give your house back to the Native Americans, you fucking hypocrite? The only one triggered here is you, with your terrorism apologia. Comparing Zionism with Nazism and the confederacy makes you look ridiculous.

You are correct, neither side has the moral high ground. But, the idea that Israel is somehow one of the worst actors in the middle east when it comes to human rights is ridiculous. The Palestinians are not interested in peace, they are interested in the destruction of Israel, and the death of the Jews. "From the river, to the sea", right? Israel has the right to exist and the right to defend itself against external threats. The image that palestinians are beat down refugees living is an open air prison, and do nothing to provoke israeli reply is patently false. Both sides are up to their eyeballs in wrong, but singling out Israel is shitty. Just sayin'.

I assume it’s Teretard you’re responding to?

Considering we violated the Fort Laramie Treaty and SCOTUS said the Black Hills land grab was illegal, perhaps we should give a majority of the Black Hills back with the exception of Mt. Rushmore.

And even Rushmore should be joint control.

Who made the case that they are one of the worst? Has Rick even done that? Them not being one of the worst and their status as an ally doesn't mean their abuses should be ignored.

Hold on. This, again, is an ignorant remark. You are lumping Hamas together with the Palestinian Authority and with every day Palestinians themselves. More than half of the Palestinian public support a two state solution (76% according to this article). You've been reading too much partisan nonsense on the idea that collectively Palestinians want to see the death of Jews.

Yes, but does that give it the right to forced land grabs and human rights abuses? You're defaulting to the typical shallow argument that "right to defend itself" means "can do whatever it wants".

But who here is actually making the argument that Palestinians are faultless? You think anyone here claps when Hamas commits a terror attack against Israeli civilians? The difference is that Israel is an ally and we not only turn a blind eye to its abuses but strong US backing, and the refusal of the US and other western nations to question Israeli actions, emboldens Israel to cross the line of acceptability when it sees fit, and with impunity. It's really no different from what we do with Saudi Arabia. Do you turn a blind eye to their human rights abuses as well? I doubt it. The issue many people have is hypocrisy. We in the West lecture our enemies or neutrals about their unacceptable actions but legitimise unacceptable actions when its our allies. It is precisely because Israel is our ally that it should be held to a higher standard and held to account when it crosses the line. Also, for me personally, I don't like that fact that Israel claim to represent Jewish people and yet is willing to commit human rights abuses less then 80 years after the Holocaust. I feel that does a disservice to Jews across the world, just as my late grandfather did. Israeli actions often fuel anti-semitism as much as they purport to be fighting it.

You are an example of the problem with the American discourse over the Israel issue. It's all simplified. Jews = Israelis. All Jews are pro-Israeli. Jews have a right to a country in whatever form. Palestinians = all bad. And if you question any of this you're an anti-semite or a self hating Jew or an Hamas apologist. In reality the situation is much more complex.

Ok, man. Whatever floats your boat.

Chup, if you think Israel and Saudi Arabia belong in the same sentence when it comes to human rights abuses, you have lost your damned mind. Welcome back, by the way.

What does this even mean?

In other words you have no answer the second an articulated argument is put to you, showing in one fell swoop why your aggression to @k was unreasonable.

If you going to go at other people, have the balls to debate the issue properly and address facts and complexities. If you can't you should keep quiet.

Aw, Packard's vagina hurts.

Krieg, if you think I put each country on an equal footing then you have a singular talent for reading things that have not actually been said.

Notice how you're bottling out of what I actually said and instead going down the road of "one is worse than the other so we can make excuses for the one that isn't as bad". An intellectually bankrupt position.

Jesus, could you be anything more like a Captain X style whiney bitch right now? Jesus. I thought you were better than that.

First off none of my family were American settlers. They were all immigrants from the beginning of last century and they all came through new York which has not been under Indian control for longer than America has existed. Second, it was terrible how the Indians were treated as sub human animals on European land when the settlers got to America. This is why I do not feel the Zionists have a right to eradicate the people who happened to be on the land when they went back and declared it theirs because of a war in Europe. Let us also remember Israel was one of their last choices. They did try to be refugees in other countries but none would have them so Zionism looked like a great idea in a world that was not to happy with the Jewish refugees from europe.

Thirdx the idea that Israel is some innocent government who is persecuted is very similar to the faux news claim white people are the victims of prejudice. It does not float and Israel has been strong enough to do some major damage to the people that were already there when it was formed. Fourth, not thinking anyone is entitled to land from a God that has not proven itself is not the same as wanting all Jews dead or being some sort of terrorist though many people mistakenly treat it as such. I am perfectly fine with American protection of the Jewish faith and securing them a place where they will always have the freedom to be Jewish. Though I would never consider shedding a drop of blood for Israel I would consider fighting in America if the Klan or neo Nazis got all uppity with the Jews.

If that all is not good enough and you want to consider me some anti Semite then go right ahead. I have met many a Zionist who felt that Israel acting like the Nazis and exterminating their foes through war crimes and other methods was appropriate and any argument means you hate Jews, but that is the extremist terrorism, fear mongering, and war mongering of the religious right. It is not any more pleasant when the Jews do the same as those who did such horrible things to their people in Nazi Germany. If it makes you feel better I don't support Muslim democracies either, but I doubt that will untrigger you.

I'll save time and energy. I don't care enough about you to refute what you've said, it's not like I'll change your mind, or anything. I will ask, what sort of solution to the problem would you put forth?

I'm not using anime memes. Man, I didn't realize Israel was so hated among the lefties and righties, here. Quite interesting.

Im sorry, but who are the evil israelis eradicating, you blathering moron?

Riiiiight. So you come in here, attack people, imply they are anti-semites, cite incorrect facts and representations and when challenged on it calmly with facts, discussion and argument by someone you know you can't accuse of anti-semitism (well, unless you're going down the self hate route) you suddenly "don't care enough to refute what [I've] said"? Total bottler.

Nah, sorry, I don't buy it. You've been caught out and you're now sadly defaulting to the behaviour usually seen by board morons who can't articulate an argument to save their lives (the aforementioned Captain X being an example) and just hide behind dumb reps. You're puffing your chest out, saying you don't care and hiding behind the rep bar. Please don't sink to their level.