Whatever you think about the EU, the idea that the UK is going to be in a position they come crawling to us in 5, 50 or 500 years time is laughable. Maybe if we HADN'T let the Tories piss away our NHS.
I am saying that they will want free trade on more reasonable terms, yes. The current unelected autocrats are definitely trying to make the deal as bad as possible to get revenge for the UK daring to tell them no because they fear lots of other countries will consider doing the same. They of course ignore entirely that it was the EU who refused any and all attempts to reform broken and put dated parts thus causing Brexit to go over the top. The UK should simply refuse to pay the exit bill and leave as that will instantly put the EU into financial crisis and the resulting demands for more money will cause other states to want to leave. You can then start knitting together a new free trade allaince to compete with the EU as well as to secure new free trade agreements around the world. Dozens of countries will trip over themselves to sign agreements and that will greatly limit the EU's power because everyone could easily say no and if you push it we will just join tgat group.
So the EU is saying that the only way Northern Ireland can have open borders with Ireland is by staying in the Customs Union. Meanwhile the Welsh and Scottish governments have stated that they will maintain their EU aligned laws even after Brexit with Scotland saying that if Westminster overrides them there will be a second referendum on Scottish independence. Odds that Brexit will lead to the break up of the UK?
Worse than some kind of dirty deal but not entirely impossible. In the end it'll be like this: the EU flags are taken down, the dumb fucks are happy about their 'freedom' and nothing else changes really. Oh, but the UK won't decide on stuff any more. It'll just do. There could also be the very dirty deal. Meaning the EU flags are taken down on March 29th, 2019. Five minutes later they're up again because they never negotiated the populist madness that is Brexit but re-entry without special conditions while doing the dumb fucks' bidding at the same time. Have the cake and eat it, demonstrated
@Ancalagon has once again proven he knows next to nothing, no surprises there. There will be no break up of the UK and all rules will apply to all of the UK. Period. End of story. This is just more made up nonsense by the EU to try to prevent an agreement from being reached because the EU is and always has been a bad faith actor. No deal is the best deal and the EU can just piss off. If they really were concerned about Ireland, which no one with even half a brain believes for even one second, then they could exempt Ireland from the EU dictates and it is problem solved. They won't do that though because they want to create problems not solve them.
Ignoring @Dinner 's inebriated ranting... The circle that Brexiteers are trying to square continues to be the same one. There are commitments in the Good Friday Agreement (an international treaty) alongside those made a couple of months ago which commit Northern Ireland to regulatory alignment. That leaves only three possibilities. Abandon the existing commitments, reneging on the Good Friday Agreement and march towards the promised land of (hard) Brexit. Align the entire UK with EU institutions, meaning that Brexit will be in name only. Siphon off Northern Ireland in some sense, where it might remain nominally in the UK but with much there decided from Brussels. (Or Dublin!) I do not see a fourth.
It's fascinating how absolutely nothing constructive comes out of London. Well, actually it makes me sad since I always regarded the Brits as tough but committed negotiators. Seems like it's more than 1,5 years after the fateful populist plebiscite (not legally binding btw...) and May still hasn't realized what is at stake here - or even how 'negotiating' works. Case in point: obviously she doesn't like the draft treaty the EU brought up. In a solo effort it seems since all she contributes ever is 'no!' She even said 'constitutional' even though the UK doesn't have an actual codified constitution. Weirdness... is she delirious? Reading too many WF threads on guns? 'Constitution' comes up a lot in those. Anyway, here's a solution for Northern Ireland. Call it some kind of special economic region or something and boom, profit. No problem, guys. It's a freebie.
Yea I know. I still don't know if the word itself applies when there is no such document. Anyway it's clear what she means.
It is going to be option 1 unless the EU stops its obstruction and actually begins acting in good faith. There simply is no other way. I have already mentioned one way things could work if the EU would stop obstructing but we both know that will not happen because they do not give a shit about Ireland and simply want there to be no deal except a punishment deal which the UK will never accept. The EU could simply sign a free trade agreement in both goods and services and the problem is solved but that doesn't meet with tge petty Eurocratic desires to try to punish the UK for daring to tell them no. Again all of this boils down to Junckers being an incompetent halfwit who has always acted in bad faith without exception.
Geopolitics according to Facebook bubbles Well if this is how you avoid nasty headaches, be my guest.
Was that when you said "they could exempt Ireland from the EU dictates"? As in, stop applying EU regulations to an EU member? Jesus, you're thick.
May's response is spot on. This red herring proposal simply is not serious nor is it anything any British PM could ever accept. The clown Barnier knows this and that is his goal. To prevent any deal.
Yes, I am saying exactly that. They could have a special arrangement where Ireland doesn't have to follow tge EU's protectionist nonsense. That is certainly a more workable solution then the EU's nonsense babbling about Northern Ireland being forced into a different arrangement than the rest of the UK (which will never happen). Just declare Ireland a free trade zone not subject to the EU's protectionist custom's union and the problem is solved.
You're extraordinarily confused. The customs union allows the free movement of goods between EU member states. You're suggesting that Ireland be excluded from that, so that Irish goods not be allowed move freely into other European countries. And that this somehow constitutes a move towards making Ireland a free trade zone. Oh dear.
No, I am saying allow Ireland to allow all goodies or at least free trade with the UK and then 90% of the questions about a hard border simply disappear. I mean, the EU is currently vrying fake crocodile tears over this issue when the reality is they don't give a fuck, at all, and all they are doing is trying to come up with excuses to avoid making a deal in an attempt to punish the UK. It won't work and the UK will walk and the EU won't get any of the Brexit ransom it so desperately wants.
Then why are you talking about Ireland leaving the customs union? And how the hell can one member of a free trade area have free trade with a third party while the others don't?
The EU keeps claiming that to avoid a hard border in Ireland it must be allowed to regulatorially break up the UK (something which will never happen and which is an obvious red herring) but there are other options if the EU really is so so so concerned. Without free trade a hard border is assured but it has always been and remains the EU refusing to negitiate free trade. My example is one way the EU could unilaterally solve this problem which the EU unilaterally created. It won't solve it though because the EU wants to create problems not solve them.
God you really are this stupid aren't you? You really don't understand what a Customs Union v Free Trade Area is. HINT: NAFTA is a Free Trade Area and your guy wants to build a wall on the border, pretty much the definition of a hard border.
I am saying the problem has to do with a lack of free trade, that is what the border customs checks would be for after all, if the EU offered an exemption so that tariffs from non EU goods was not enforced in Ireland then the problem would simply disappear. The Republic of Ireland would still be in the EU would still get access to the common market but would also not have tariffs between tge UK and Ireland. The EU could unilaterally do this at any time they want but they won't so forgive me if I don't believe Barnier's tear stained claims about how nothing can be agreed unless Northern Ireland is forced to remain in the EU. His claims are a lie, it is a fake issue which he is trying to play up as an excuse to create yet another obstruction. Fuck him and his lies because they are acting in bad faith just as they ALWAYS have been acting in bad faith.
So b/c the English voted to leave the EU, Ireland now has to leave the Customs Union!?!? And the Europeans are the ones making crazy demands?!?!
Between who? If Ireland has a free trade agreement with the UK, what's to stop a French person from taking advantage of it?
Nothing. which is pretty much the point. draws business into Ireland in order to do get to United Kingdom. Isn't that good for Ireland?
