California Funds Nation's First Inmate Sex Change Surgery

You know you have lost the argument when all you have left is picking out typos.

People get sent to prison to be punished not to be given $100,000 gifts. This is just absolutely criminal waste, fraud, and abuse and the people who allowed this to occur belong in prison.

Normally I don't pull the typo shit, but yours are so constant and absolutely fucking lazy.

Like more of your "debating."

the preferability of capital punishment to life in prison is another discussion.

I recognize that there are asshole that say "either kill them, or throw them in a hole and who cares if they get sick or whatever because they are scum."

That says more about you than about them but fine, that's one position. BUT, what is under discussion here is within the context of SCOTUS having made it clear we have a societal obligation to alleviate suffering and provide adequate health care.Whether or not you think those old fuckers got it wrong is neither here nor there.

But the reality is that you can't come at it on a cost basis - it costs more to treat an unresolved case, between mental health care, suicide prevention precautions, treatment for failed attempts, medications and so forth, over the course of decades, than it does to just operate and move on.

That's not counting the huge amount you pay the lawyers every time you get sued for not doing it.

That's not counting that FedGov reimburses most of the cost mentioned here anyway (it's right there in the article)

So if it's not cost, and if we disregard the "let em all suffer" position as never going to happen no matter how much you want it to, then there's only one dispute left - y'all look down on people who need this treatment as beneath you (whether prisoner or free) and dismiss their care as "elective" and "cosmetic" and, as note, you do so in the confidence you'll never need such treatment yourself so fuck all the assholes who do.

It's exactly the same as Christians who are MUCH more opposed to SSM than they are to divorce...because they might want a divorce some day.

Maybe I'd rather see $112 million spent on something that benefits taxpayers and society. Like better roads, better schools, better parks.

Imagine this - I kill someone and end up in prison. Maybe I'm not happy (and have been unhappy for almost my whole life) because I'm too tall. I tried but failed to commit suicide because I am so depressed about my insane, freakish height. I want to get sections cut out of my legs - I want to have my shins removed like Cotton Hill. It's not like the prisons have to address this situation very often - my total medical bills will be .01 percent of the total prison operating costs. Do I deserve to get my legs shortened or not? It's not "elective" surgery - it's pure torture being tall, to the point where I am suicidal. Only other freakishly tall people would understand how hard it is living this life. What say you Nova/John and anyone else supporting the sex change?

same question that no one else wants to answer - you feel the same way about back surgery or any other medical expense for non-lethal suffering?

why not posit an operation that actually exists. Or a legitimate condition. Then we'll talk.

Now, go out and find me ONE legitimate medical source which supports the idea that "I'm too tall syndrome" is an actual thing, otherwise piss off with the analogy fail.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/491109/Height-linked-to-depression

https://www.reddit.com/r/tall/comments/2mherq/is_anyone_else_chronically_depressed_about_being/

http://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Hate-Being-Tall/1714390

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-85296/Suicide-girl-aged-13-bullied-6ft.html

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...TV-star-commits-suicide-because-of-his-height

Inmates should get medical procedures to ensure their survival in prison where genitals aren't needed since sex is illegal.

Maybe that's an "aboration".

For those who complain about this it is not just a transsexual issue. It is an issue about how we treat our criminals vs how we deal with the poor. This is just one of the areas it makes no sense because we treat our poor like garbage worse than criminals. In nails around the country there are prisoners who chose to commit crimes because it is more comfortable and safe to live in prison than to live on the street. That is not all homeless and poor because many find the surrendering of freedom and privacy to be worse than doing without food and shelter. However for those who can deal with low security prison you do get food, water, medical care, a bit of television, a clean bathing area, a clean bathroom, a clean bed, some safety, books, some people to talk to and play basic games with, and a few other things you are not guaranteed on the street. You get that all for the exchange of being able to travel more than a city block, and for having to be naked in front of other people. You cannot make your own schedule and will often have to do things at times you do not want to. You may have to do some work around the jail. You cannot chose to get away from people you do not want to be near.

Before anyone gets all uppity about how nice the life is in our prisons you need to try it sometime to be able to speak here because you do not know how terrible it can be to lose the freedoms you take for granted until you do lose them. You can imagine it, but for anyone who has not gone through it you simply do not have a clue. It should explain something to you that so many people die from exposure, malnutrition, and whatever else kills you on the street when they can easily toss a brick through a window and get a free ticket to lockup. Those are terrible ways to die, yet our homeless populations tend to be much larger outside the prison system.

As for the sure thing, I am going to fall on the side of not giving it out. You start handing out srs to people who are going to spend a few years in prison, and to a community who has experience with lockup for a stretch you might be inviting some crime. It is not to hard to find a hateful bigot to assault and you are not doing life. You might be worse off finding a job because of are than because of having a felony record, or at least the opportunities open to a felon would also be open to a trasnsexual. If you keep your mouth shut about premeditation you could easily find a hateful asshole to kill assault and take the mitigated time became supposedly he started with you and you had term defend yourself. Trans people go through a lot worse shit than prison to live as they wish.

Basically if you are going to start handing it to prisoners you better start having some methods that come from participating positively in the community to get it for the poor. Especially when you have so many deplorables looking to harass and annoy the transsexual community. It does not take too much to find an unsuspecting deplorable alone and ambush them. Many of the worse of them are all to happy to identify themselves, and if you are already to rip your dick off without the assistance of a doctor or medicine a couple of years for assault while you remember attacking someone you feel deserves it for being so openly aggressive towards you is not going to be as terrible for some transsexual people. It may not be right, but it is real.

being depressed about a physical trait, even a real one, is not comparable. I know this from experience. I've always been very unhappy about my weight, and - related to my self image of the femininity I missed out on, I'm also quite dissatisfied with my excess height.

I know the difference between these and my gender dysphoria.

When I say scientific links, I don't mean an anecdotal account I mean a documented scientific study which says "this is a legitimate condition which occurs because of this physiological thing we will describe." I can do that for being trans, can you do it for too-tall-itis?

I see no one has the balls (SWIDT?) to answer the chronic back pain question.

As expected.

I agree with what you said previous to this but I think here you make a false assumption. CA actually paroled a different prisoner rather than pay for the surgery. people in for the relatively short term won't get it. And it would be obvious to any therapist that they were trying to play the system and without the therapist on your side you wouldn't get approved. In the mean time, when you deny it you are saying "this procedure is not as legitimate as other procedures" which is the error that led to this judgment in the first place. I don't doubt that someone might do so in a desperate bid to get HRT, but do I really want to be the punching bag for big Leroy (or worse, up to and including getting killed) in order to get my HRT regularly and have a chance to whine and sue my way into GRS? That's a helluva gamble. There's been a LOT more trans women killed behind bars than women who got GRS.

I agree short time people would not get it because you are not going to do anything long term. That is why I would use assault or murder where you might avoid life. You already have transsexuals who are angry at the haters. They may have personal enemies in their life which they might be encouraged to assault or kill and as long as they are not caught in the premeditated charges would sacrifice a decade or two in prison. Also many places house trans inmates in specialised facilities where certain at risk prisoners go. They would probable be housed with child molesters if they are on track for srs or undergoing hrt. You could set yourself up with the diagnosis of medical professionals and that would help you in being designated as trans inside the prison system. As long as you kept the law from linking your nature with the thought process of the crime you could establish a strong case for you to be housed with other transsexuals or perhaps even females. Then all you need is to make it look spontaneous you ran into a known loudmouth hater and you were just prepared because the world is a dangerous place according to the law and even your psychiatrist. It would be hard to not fuck up the story and get caught on premeditation.

I am not saying it would be every trans person, but I would rather see more opportunities for trans people outside of our prison system to benefit from srs funded by society than for those who have broken the law. I am only mentioning this next bit because it was actually surprising too me when I was locked up, and it might be a thing for some transsexuals. I actually did not suffer from a lot of dysphoria while in Jail. I thought it was going to drive me crazy, but it was like I was in a world where women did not exist. I think that made it bearable for me. There was no images of women being women unless I thought it. I am very aware this does not happen to every transsexual and many harm themselves inside because it is made worse to not be able to present. However if I were to present only as male for three months outside I would probably become violent and resenting seeing women doing what I wish. They just weren't there in jail, and no one was who they wanted to be, so I never had an issue. I wanted to be home and presenting but it did not make me go crazy. Also, I do not know how it would be for years of incarceration.

I am going to put this out here as part of the discussion because I have a viewpoint that rates to this directly.

For those who do not know I went to jail a decade ago. I committed identity theft, and was rightfully convicted of the crime and served my time as punishment for it. One of the big contributing factors of why I did what I did was being discriminated against for being transsexual. I was well employed with time Warner cable and they seemed like a very progressive company. They were to an extent. You did not say boo to women or most minorities without getting the boot due to a zero tolerance policy towards discrimination. This did not apply at the time to the glbt community. Where you could not ruin a person's career for being black, you could find allies and do it to gays and trans people in time Warner and ny at the time I committed my crime. I did not think that was the case at the time, but it was.

I was so employed and my managers liked me. I performed better than anyone in my department at all times, and also was willing to help my co-workers out. Where some people were uppity about helping out people witnessed positions I was a person people felt comfortable coming to for assistance. I was well liked and I had overcome the burn out many people went through when working phone support because I saw a future within the company and they appeared to be progressive towards trans and gay people. Then it came out that I was going out as a woman during my off hours. If you want all the dramatic details I think I have told the story in other areas.

Anyway, as doors were being shut both in the company and in the it pool of workers n the area I got really angry. I did everything they wanted. I was doing a great job and was recognized for it. Nothing fell off. My manager got threatened for trying to back me with my record. Anyone who wanted to support me got the message they would join me in exile. That ticked me off even worse because they were good people with families who were being forced into silence and to look the other way for their own well-being. I could not repay them for any sacrifice they made. To keep this as short as I can I was pissed. I was not in for hurting people physically, but there were fantasies of shooting up the office.

When I saw my career being trashed and my life being destroyed I thought to get my revenge before they could stop me. The position that I was in allowed me access to the names and social security numbers of customers in the area. Time Warner had done a nice thing and used hr records to fill in social security numbers on residential accounts. As a regular customer you might have licked out and had that information missing, but that was rare. From my old days I knew of, not how to, use that information to get fake credit cards. There was not much of a leap to connect those dots when I was passed and wanted to coast to my next job and stick it to the credit card companies and let a little collateral damage fall on the rich assholes who let it happen to me, or did it to me. Stupid admin of the software had even turned off the account logging that was supposed to be there to track activities like I was about to do. I was familiar with how to get these things, and in my anger I did it.

I did it because I thought those people deserved it for destroying my professional life over something that harmed no one in any way. I am not alone in that sort of anger and want of revenge. Yes, it was the wrong thing to do, and I have come to the point where I do not want to be that person anymore. I would rather die in a gutter than go do that again. I might have done worse if srs was a possibility in prison. I knew right where my attackers lived. I was well versed in explosives, Booby traps, real guns, and I even knew the schedules some of my attackers had. Back then I would say there would have been a very good chance I would have tried to set one of them up to have accidentally run into me and make a reasonable doubt it was not premeditated and assault them enough to get a decade in jail. I cannot imagine I am the only one who would have those feelings towards the haters. I would probably not even have to roll the dice with sentencing because a plea deal would probably be easily in range of the time required to make srs an issue.

Even now I can be sure of what I would have done back then. I already considered myself a demon hated by society for who I was. I was just playing along in their game by their rules. I hated them for that, but I thought I could get somewhere and have some fun my way if only I did their thing during work hours. When I found out that wasn't good enough for the haters, and that they would reach into my life and destroy everything and everyone they could I was only deterred from killing and assault by jail time. If jail was going to give me srs I have no doubt I would have did some damage that would forever altered their life. Even years later when those types of people threatened a friend of mine because he was seen in public I was ready to spend some years in prison with nothing but the memories of the bloody heap I would have left their loved ones and children in. They were saved because he never gave me the names of who did it. I tried to get those names on my own. There was no thought in my head that prison would have provided me with srs, and if it did that would have certainly made me go further than I did.

Not all transsexuals are like me, and I would say most of them would net go that far. However there are some who are. I would rather see those who are have a path to a positive transition open to them before a path that involves hurting someone is presented to them.

Yeah, in your Master Troll Chest beating, you never mentioned any of that when you brought up the info hack.

so seldom, I'd predict, as to be irrelevant to the overall decision.

I refer back to the back operation. If you are homeless or destitute and in agony every day and you realize that, say, armed robbery or something puts you under a roof, with regular meals and you get your back sussed out - would you do it? Some would. Is that an argument for forcing every prisoner with a herniated disk to live in pain?

Not for me.

Update: currently in a cell by herself in Chowcilla and denied access to a razor:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/311756792005?...48&_trksid=p2385738.c100694.m4598&_mwBanner=1

Uh, what does a toy car have to do with anything?

I guess it didn't copy from the FB link correctly.

Here ya go:

http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/us/...nment-inmate-says-women-s-prison-11020497.php

Could this not be true? And the isolation actually an attempt to help this person avoid some awkwardness with the other prisoners?

I gotta say, I actually agree with the daughter.

I totally support giving this person a razor - an old school straight razor and a diagram of all the major arteries!

I would rather see the resources go to a person who has not done the crime and who may benefit from a transition. However that is not an option, nor will be. I also feel that giving out sex changes in prison might not encourage certain people who could stand incarceration to commit a crime. I think it wouldn't pd be somewhat rare but given the rate of homeless and poor trans people you may find some people make that choice. Having because n in prison I did find certain issues were lessened. There was no gender difference. I did not see a female option so oddly the euphoria was less. Of course I was only in for a short time, and maybe things change with more time.

I am mostly on the wall on this one. The thing that makes me actually like this idea is it passes off people who are in need of being pissed off. Yes, take the money from the haters and give it to a sex change, or don't.

She's in a new prison thus put ina reception center like all newly arrived inmates. She's not being treated any differently than other like inmates and the same restricted property matrix applies to her. Wouldn't want newly arrived inmates to go killing themselves or others upon arrival.

Noteworthy is that she filed this claim without her lawyers suggesting her lawyers won't even bite at this one.

Admittedly, I'm not as familiar with the prison system as some, but seeing that she's been in prison for most of her life at this point and hasn't caused trouble apart from the suicide attempts, it seems odd for her to go throughthis as though she's a brand new inmate to the system.

Just my two cents.

No one has ever transferred from a men's prison to a women's prison before. Women's prisons (there are only 2) are set up different than the 33 male prisons so this is way different than a male to male prison transfer.

Fair point.

"I'm in a women's prison where I'm being treated like a woman"