Schools should be allowed to kick out the disruptive kids. But they'll never do that because it'll reduce the amount of money they get. Now what?
That is a stretch even for you. I'm sorry but which classmates do you perceive are making it damn near impossible for the teacher to teach? How exactly is the behavior of students the responsibility of the government? Besides that, I'm sure that if the so called problem students were dealt with and those students happened to be black folks like you would be whining that they are being denied their public education and aren't being given the same opportunity. Kind of an interesting quandary isn't it?
It is a no win though. If those students who are creating the problems are either black, or "minorities" than we get the same bullshit excuses being made for their choices not to succeed being give that Nick is giving right now.
Me personally? None, as I'm in college now, and this is tales from my aunt who substitute teaches in Flint's inner-city schools. Hmm...could it be because schools are run by the government? I might, I might not be, since that isn't happening, we have no way of knowing.
You don't know that things aren't happening. You are attempting to compare how students behave for substitute teachers as being some sort of significant indication for how some students are preventing others from receiving an education. You seem to believe that it is some how the schools job to discipline students which to a certain degree that is true. Ultimately the way students behave is how their parents allow them to behave. The way I see it this is a no win scenario with you. You seem to want students disciplined so long as their skin color is "white". You seem to believe that the behavior of students under the supervision of a substitute teacher is wide spread and happens in all of their classes. Substitute teachers tend to bring out the poor behavior in many students simply because they want to push the limits. So you've narrowed down one or two days there. But, what about the other 175 days of the school year? The bottom line is this. If black students do not take advantage of the educations they are being provided, they can blame everyone else and especially the "whites" in this country. But, guess what in the end is their blaming anyone for their problems going to solve their problems? Is it going to get them a job? Is it going to get them food, clothing, and shelter? Or is getting off of their rears and working to improve themselves no matter the situation, and getting jobs to pay for those things going to solve their problems, or perceived problems?
Well then write them, call them, visit them during their regular meetings. Kind of keep in mind though, if you are demanding that they create policy that requires various discipline issues being implemented, it may backfire on you where some of those you seem to believe are being denied educations will continue to be denied educations because of their poor behavior and choices to not follow school rules.
Fine by me. I'd sooner that a bunch of hooligans that are wasting my tax dollars get thrown out so that the few that actually have the potential and desire to be successful, will be successful. Inch by inch.
Nick get it right. Use the lingo. This would've been more appropriate... "Okay, whatever typical white person."
I agree with disciplining students when they are creating. I'm also well aware of the fact that it will also feed the hype that certain students are being denied things because of their skin color when that simply is not the issue. It also means something else, how do you know that isn't being done already and that those who you view are being denied an education are only being denied because of their behavior and the decisions they have made? Which gets back to my initial response to you. That it is their choices not to take advantage of what is being offered.
And I've noticed you haven't been able to prove these racist and divisive attitudes exist in context. Repeatedly claiming something doesn't make it so. I didn't look. Mind you, what's wrong with starting a church with a focus on on one group, if you believe that group has been underserved by churches in the past? That's the free market at work, isn't it? Yes, indeed you did. "Not afraid of its African roots" is apparently racist and divisive, at least in your mind. Well, if a white man in California thinks the legacy of segregation is not longer an issue in America, that's good enough for me! Point of order: Wright retired earlier this year. It's not his church anymore. You're not listening. You're not interested in listening. 1. When did Obama make these contributions? 2. Did you miss the part above where I point out Wright resigned earlier this year, so it's not "Wrights church" anymore? Now go ahead, ignore everything I've written, and again ask for proof of other "divisive, race focused churches," even though that's not what I was talking about, even though it wouldn't change your opinion of Wright and "Wrights church," something that doesn't technically exist anymore.
They have been repeatedly presented and demonstrated. Unfortunately you choose to turn a blind eye to the reality of the hate that makes up Obama's church. I have also provided you with numerous examples of how his churches mission statement is different than other churches. You made a follow up claim to that with other churches do the same thing yet have offered up absolutely nothing to back up that statement. Can we conclude you are have not provided that information because you are unable to? I didn't look.[/quote] Uh huh. Because it fosters divisiveness and does nothing to solve the problems of racism. I will not wait for you to actually prove your statement. You have yet to demonstrate that Wright is not a racist. That cannot be done for one simple reason. There is video proof of his statements. It is a shame you are unable to vote for Obama. I'm sure he'd love to have your vote. The unquestioning love and following by people is what it is going to take for someone to vote for him. Nice try. Attempting to inject other topics when you have lost because of being unable to substantiate your claims. Yes, indeed you did. "Not afraid of its African roots" is apparently racist and divisive, at least in your mind.[/quote] Show me some other churches that focus on one specific race in their mission statement. You've claimed they are out there. Come on put up or shut up. Please show us how well versed you are in US churches and their missions. Well, if a white man in California thinks the legacy of segregation is not longer an issue in America, that's good enough for me! [/quote] As opposed to a white man from Canada? When is the last time you visited the US? Point of order: Wright retired earlier this year. It's not his church anymore.[/quote] Yes, he did retire this year. And in the years he was ministering to the Obama's they were contributing $22k to support him and his church. Even during the periods of time he was promoting his brand of hate against "white America". [/quote] That is what I thought. You really don't know what churches in America promote for their missions. What you think is that Obama's church isn't racist or divisive. I'd be curious how you spin and rationalize away their fondness for Farrakhan. You have yet to comment or voice an opinion that aspect of that church. I must've turned off my speakers. Listening to what exactly? Your opinion that Wright isn't a racist hate monger? Your opinion that all US churches focus on a single race in their mission statements? What should I be listening to from you 14thDoctor? Wright retired from the church this year. That does not excuse 20 years of hate and racism. As for the contributions those would be from 06. 07 numbers aren't in yet. I haven't ignored anything that you've written 14thDoctor. Disagreement with your conclusions is not ignoring. If I were ignoring your posts I wouldn't be aware of the claims you made about churches yet you have been unable to support your statements.
The fact that it's impossible to prove a negative? If anyone else has questions, or anything beyond soundbites to prove the allegations (he's a hateful racist) against Wright, I'm all ears.
You know, when I go to church, my preacher talks about things like living a moral life, finding redemption and love in God, how to walk the path to rightousness. I can't recall ever hearing him rail about anything political. Not gay marriages, not welfare reform, not even the war in Iraq. Now, maybe it's because I'm a Presbyterian and not a Baptist, but hten again, maybe it's because he really believes that the pulpit and politics don't mix. Yeah, maybe the Reverend Wright only said Whites suck just that one time, but isn't once enough? If my preacher said Blacks suck over and over in a sermon he'd be out on his ear that day.
I used to go to a Lutheran church, and they didn't get political either. I know some churches do, though. There's no denying that. It's basically the "discuss the post, not the poster" rule in effect. If Wright criticizes Whites peoples actions, it's different from directly criticizing whites themselves. On that W.E.B. Dubois page I linked to earlier, Dubois criticized both whites and blacks. I was surprised to see him state that part of the problem in black communities is blacks not taking crime seriously when it's committd by other blacks. Considering the author is those statements is credited in the churches Mission Statement, I'd say Wrights church is more than willing to condemn anyones actions, be they white or black.
Soundbites? Oh give me a fucking break. Source after source after video reference after video reference has been provided to you as well as Ryan demonstrating what a racist hateful man Wright is. There is nothing that can be shown to someone like you. It doesn't take a genius to realize you will never have enough information to demonstrate racism on the part of Wright and his church. Care to answer the question about his support of Farrakhan, or have you not received any Canadian news sound bites. You sir have made claims about US churches in general and have failed repeatedly to back up those statements. Apparently your statements are some sort Canadian soundbites you have been fed?
Once again, I'm honestly curious what our dear departed phantom thinks of this. Particularly the anti Hillary screed. He was always fond of telling us how his mothers church wanted to kick out anyone who would vote for Kerry, and what an example it was of faith based Republican religious fascism.
I wouldn't attend a church in which the preacher spoke negatively of whites, blacks, or for that matter any other race or gender. I sure as hell wouldn't be contributing $22K to that church.
Man...I gotta comment of a couple of things here: Well...yes and no. After nearly fifty years of increasingly better civil rights acts being mandated in the government which allows those of any color to attend the same schools (in theory, anyway) as anyone else and tons of opportunity to improve their lives, it does irk me that people still complain about Whitey bringing them down. But Nick is right when he says it's not that easy to up and move when you haven't got a dime to your name, and--the biggest factor for most--they haven't got any connections in any other place. My mom jumped at the chance to leave the 'hood, when my considerably more well-off uncle moved to what I call my hometown and stayed with him for a few months. But unlike most living in such areas, she didn't have it embedded into her head that she had to stay in a rut, and even less so after having us kids. And the schools in the hood are godawful because there's no funding. And there is no funding because kids do poorly on the standardized tests. And kids do poorly because they have no help at home, and no parent involvement and few outside the home where they *could* get help from. And it hurts the brighter kids among them when you get into a high school that doesn't even offer math classes beyond Algebra II and the sciences and arts are extremely limited. And to be fair, this hurts inner city kids as much as rural white children, as Async's experiences growing up have opened my eyes to. And even worse is being in a community that doesn't hold much hope in its youth. When I visit my relatives in the town my mom left seventeen years ago, most of them seem to be in awe about how "successful" we are. And by "success," I mean her being in a fairly decent relationship, me not being pregnant and in college (I'm 22), and my brother not being in a gang. In other words, your typical American family. My cousins think I'm "smart" for attending college. But most people truly don't seem to believe there's no way out but drugs. One of my aunts had a son who was valedictorian of his class. Depending on how well the school was, I'm sure he could have gotten into a decent school on that alone. But he got into selling drugs, and my aunt more or less encouraged it by taking his blood money. He was the same age I was when he got shot and killed--in the four years after leaving high school, he could have graduated with a degree if his family encouraged him to do so. On the less dramatic side, another cousin was on the honor roll through high school but then she started getting accused of being too "white" for daring to do good in school. She ended up letting her grades drop, and I don't remember if she ended up leaving school or not as a result. But suffice it to say she has no degree to speak of. Her mother was into her own crazy world of drugs and prostitution. The kids of these areas need people to help them achieve a good standard of life. Key words being "kids" and not "adults who are old enough to make their own decisions." That's the problem--everyone points the finger and says they need to pull themselves up by the bootstrap and get 'er done...but some have no one to tell them they even have boots on. If nothing else, I hope that Obama even being a heavy contender for the White House will be inspiration for black America to say "Yes, I can" and begin to take some responsibility...or at least start helping to push their own kids towards a better life. Whoo, that was [-]TLDR[/-] longer than I intended.
The problem I have with the whole concept of "blacks have no money and our schools suck so we can't pull ourselves up" is that I look around and see people that came to this country as refugees with no money and in 20 years are millionaries and their kids are valedictorians. They worked their asses of, forced their kids to study, and it paid off. And here we have 13 percent of the population that has money and programs galore just handed to them that still can't get it right.
no u I didn't actually get around to watching Ryans videos. I'm watching the first one right now. Let's see.... -Slavery was government policy in the past, until Lincoln (White!) changed that. -Segregation was government policy, until Truman (White!) changed that. -He called Bill Clinton (White!) an "intelligent friend" of Blacks. -He's said many unkind things about Bush, but he hasn't mentioned that Bush is White. -He quoted a bible verse to claim that while governments change, God does not. -He's claming God is a God of love. -Also, a God of Justice. -Apparently, governments fail. Governments in the bible failed. Governments in the present day fail. -American governments have failed citizens of various descents. Indians, the Japanese, Africans. -"God bless America?" No, "God damn America," for treating its citizens as less than human. That's what I saw. I saw someone who's critical of the American government, but who also recognizes that (White!) American leaders have also made changes for the better. The second video is the same one I found in TNZ. I've already explained why I have no problem with that one. Did you miss that when I originally posted it? Define "someone like me." Really? If he really is a racist, there should be more than enough information to convince anyone. Honestly, I don't know anything about Wright supporting Farrakhan. I do know that Wright is a Christian and Farrakhan is a Muslim, so I doubt their support involves total agreement on every subject. And here we go. That some churches intentionally minister to different sections of the population not well served by mainstream churches? This is something you need proven? You need a link to a chinese-american church that performs services in Mandarin? Or a link to a youth-oriented ministry? This is something you really don't believe? When did my being Canadian come up? Does bringing up my nationality make you a hateful racist like Wright?
Yes. They worked their asses off. They got their kids to study. The key here is adults acting responsibly, and then taking an active interest in their kids. It's pretty easy to just point at a 12-year old kid and say "pull yourself up by your bootstraps", but its another thing entirely for them to actually do it.
So if black adults aren't going to do it, should we maybe send black kids to live with the Vietnamese fishmermen or something?
