I think that is something a lot of people are overlooking. The fact that Obama KNEW about Wright last year, and still had him work on his campaign. Giving the man a job on the campaign trail obviously shows to me that you support his ideals, his position, and hold his advice in pretty high merit.
Someone at Big Blue posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T6-O8GIylQ It's ten minutes long, and it puts the "chickens come home to roost" comments into context. Watching this doesn't convince me Wright is a racist. If anything, it convinces me Wright is a man of peace.
Doc you can spin it however you'd like. You can believe what you'd like to believe. But, the man supports people like Farrakhan. His sermons have been filled with hate in the past. He believes that the US government some how engineered HIV with the intent of infecting black members of the US. That is not a man of love, that is not a man interested in equality to me. After reading through numerous posts, numerous threads, both here and at TNZ, I have to conclude that there are some who aren't interested in believing that Obama has some extremely questionable associations and friends. That is fine. Each of us are entitled to our opinion's. Some of us will vote as we believe is best. Obama in my opinion supports racists and is just as much the typical DC politican that he wants to make Hillary out to be. Hillary is a liar, a carpet bagger and someone that I simply do not believe is the right choice for the White House. McCain is an opportunist and would sell his grandmother if it would give him the White House and the power associated with being the President of the United States. In my opinion he is lying when he says that he would support and encourage tax cuts. That calls into question why he cast no votes in each of the Bush tax cuts that came before in the past seven years. The US's two party system is one that needs to be eliminated and I refuse to continue to vote for the "lesser of the two evils." And for the record I've watched the you tube video in its entirety. About the only thing that has changed for me is that I actually got to see Wright referencing scripture a bit here and there. Either way, Obama's association with him in my opinion is going to be poison for his campaign and will plague him the rest of the campaign and rightly so.
I'm not sure how it became racist to mention racism. Wright was talking about skin color, wealth, and the privileges and power they bring in this country. You can absolutely debate the merits of that but I don't see how anyone could honestly claim it's "preaching hate". Read it. Totally quackery, for sure. I don't think that makes Wright any more racist than people who believe the moon landing was faked or there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll, though. What's interesting to me is that Wright's anti-government tirades are very similar to those on the other side of the aisle. If you replaced poverty, prejudice, and warfare with taxes, gun control, and big government many wouldn't have batted an eye.
Last I checked there aren't any rules that say you can only talk about elections you're able to vote in, so you can go fuck off. The big difference here is you would probably have no qualms discussing Austrian politics, even though Aurora would know far more about American politics than you would about Austrian politics.
What spin? I asked for full texts of Wrights past sermons, which no one was able to (or very interested in) providing. From the single ten minute excerpt I found, Wright didn't come off like a racist. He came off like a man calling for calm in the wake of a terrible tragedy. He came off like a man with a better historical perspective than many people. He came off like a man who was willing to cite his sources, who was willing to back his views up with a quote from a white man. Other folks have a different view of Wright, but they haven't provided firsthand proof to back up those views, beyond extremely short sound bites. Sermons no one is willing to show me. That belief is pretty fucked up. I'd like to know his sources for that claim. What are you basing that on? Ten second sound bites? Editorials written by other people? I don't disagree there. Some people will refuse to believe anything unpleasant about their chosen candidate. The "impeached over a blowjob!!!" types are a great example. And what's that opinion based on? Who does he support, and what proves those people are racists? I agree he's a politician, but I wouldn't say he's as bad as Hillary. The Clintons have been in federal politics two decades longer than Obama. I don't think there's any way any one-term junior Senator can be as bad as the Clintons. I can agree with that, though I've never cared for your use of the term "carpet bagger." That's more of a personal preference, though. I really liked McCain until he became a serious contender, when he started pandering to anyone he thought could help him. I'd like to think he'll become the old McCain if he makes it into the White House, but I have my doubts. I originally saw the Fox snippets on the Daily Show, where even they made Wright out to be a loon. Seeing the Youtube video definitely changed my opinion, but to each his own. I completely agree. I believe this is going to be Obamas "Swift Boat" issue, and the thing most likely to sink him. I don't agree with that, but I can see why some people would.
That's right, fat boy. I'm likely to break into a discussion about Nazi politics any moment now. Wait for it...
You've seen roughly 2 minutes and 43 seconds of footage from this church and you feel qualified to comment on what they are all about for the last 20 years?
I would think a lot of the people who defend the Confederate battle flag would carry a more nuanced view of racism. Yet somehow even mentioning America's struggle with racism and class has become "racist" in itself. It's interesting that Obama has become a debate about Wright. Maybe it's because Wright is a far easier target. With a white mother, Kenyan father, and Indonesian step-father, with a youth and career that not only spanned much of the United States (from Honolulu to Los Angeles to New York and Chicago) but the world, it seems inane to start claiming Obama really harbors a hidden, deep-seated racism. Yet here we are. I guess that's politics.
I don't care if it was only 2 minutes and 43 seconds. The fact that this church has chosen to recognize the likes of Farrakhan is more than enough. Add to that the fact that Jeremiah Wright has repeatedly and in more than one sermon made hate filled disparaging remarks against an entire group of people is more than enough to conclude the man is a racist, and promotes nothing but divisive attitudes within his church. Considering how serious he was with his statements in each of the clips that I have seen of his sermons makes me believe that these were not the only instances in which he conducted himself in this manner. Add to that his being uninvited to Obama's invocation and I smell serious problems with this man, the church and the goal of the church. I've never seen a church whose goal is to only work with black people as this church seems to do. Generally the goals for churches are to work with all in order to bring the word of God to them.
Really? I've seen many churches or ministries that place an emphasis on groups that might not normally be reached by "regular" churches. My city has several "asian" churches, and I've seen "ukrainian" ones as well.
I think you missed my point. Whether it is intentional, or unintentional, I'm not sure which at this point. I think one thing can be concluded from all of this. It really doesn't matter at this point, how much is presented regarding Jeremiah Wright and Obamas support for Wright and that church. Some folks simply do not want to accept the type of church Obama receives his spiritual feeding from. That is fine, I'm thankful that not everyone is easily fooled. At least judging from some of the recent polls that I've seen come out over the past few days.
Well. This is one time where I'll gladly eat my words (Well, some of them, anyway)...in the context, I'm a bit more convinced that this guy isn't all RACISM, HURR on purpose. That being said, I still stand on my position that he's pretty idiotic to compare the events of Hiroshima/Nagasaki to 9/11 or that the gub'mit's out to get the black man by passing three strikes laws, among a whole host of issues. He's a bonehead, to put it kindly, and even if I don't think Wright is as crazy as I thought him to be, Obama has certainly shot himself in the foot trying to defend the guy with the "typical white woman" line.
The mission statement for the Trinity United Church of Christ I think someone forgot to tell them this isn't the 20th Century anymore. Trinity United Church of Christ Mission Statement Now let's compare it with some other churches. The following in the mission of the United Methodist Church. I'm not sure about you, but I see a definite difference in tone and attitude of this church versus Obamas. I also do not see any mention of race, or skin color regarding how they will minister. United Methodist Church Mission The Baptist Church Again, not a word of mention regarding a persons race in their mission statement. Baptist Church Now from some non-denominational churches Calvary Chapel Mission First Evangelical Church, Fullerton EvFree Fullerton First Evangelical Church TN Now I've provided a few different churches and their mission statements to compare with Obamas churches. You've said that you are aware of other churches that promote racial division in their churches, so maybe you could provide some supporting information for that 14th Doctor.
Where does that mission statement "promote racial division?" I've highlighted the bits I think go out of the way to sound inclusive. Also, did you catch the mention of W.E.B. DuBois and the problem of the color line? Do you know what was being referred to? He was referring to segregation. You'll note I gave you two whole paragraphs that I felt completed an idea, not just a sentence or two out of context. Here's a link to the page I pulled that quote from. http://www.bartleby.com/114/9.html Here's a little more about the colour line, and how segregation is a bad thing, and how solving the problem is the colour line is in the best interests of both blacks and whites. And one last quote, because I've really enjoyed reading it. I'd add more, but I think that's enough for now.
That dog ain't gonna hunt. Wright has gone far, far beyond just mentioning America's struggle with racism. If you can't see that, nothing I say or type here is gonna change your mind, so I don't see the need to continue the conversation. I'm sure you can back this up with links of direct quotes by me. I've been very careful in choosing my words about Obama. I think Wright is a certified, grade-A, racist asshole, and while I think Obama should rightly be called to task on whom he chooses to associate with, I don't necessarily think Obama himself hides some racist agenda. After nearly eight years of cronieism amongst old friends and advisors that has been questionable even in the best of times, I would think we, as a nation, would be a little more interested in who has influence on our future President. And, before a single word comes across anyone's keyboard (I'm looking at you, Liet), don't even try to make the previous paragraph into some sort of double standard regarding McCain because my outright distrust for him is well documented by now.
What do you base this conclusion on, other than the few sound bites we've all seen and statements about Wright made by others? I'm honestly curious, because that's all anyone else saying that has been able to show me. Fair enough.
I've noticed that you have chosen to rely on quotes first and foremost rather than identifying churches that have demonstrated racist and divisive attitudes such as Obama's. I can't help but think that is partially due to the fact that you are unable to find churches that at their core promote an agenda that focuses as heavily on being black as does Obama's church. I have added in some bold highlights from Trinities mission statement that you some how glossed over. As for the reference to W.E.B. I am aware of who the man is. I am well aware of the involvement with segregation. I also know it is something that irrelevent to the 21st Century. As I stated, apparently Wright and his church are stuck in the past at the cost of the present and possibly the cost of Obama's bid for the Presidency considering the support that Obama continues to lend to Wright and his church. I'm also awaiting for you to provide support to your earlier comments that you responded with regarding other churches have some issues with race and focus on race as Obama's. Would you care to follow that up, or will we receive more "quotes" that do not support your claim about other churches? I'd like to also point out that even this morning on Meet The Press, it was pointed out that Obama has contributed more than $22,000 dollars to this church. So his actions are not matching his beautifully spoken speeches regarding disagreeing with Wright. Apparently he disagrees with Wright in words, but where the rubber meets the road, the all might dollar, he does agree with Wright and Wrights church.
I think that you have predetermined viewpoints and see only what facts represent your existing viewpoints rather than be impartial. At first this whole snafu really damaged my opinion of him, and I was ready, if need be, to vote third party or for McCain in the general election. But after hearing members of my family rant injecting media diatribe into their opinions of Wright, rather than what he actually said, I felt I should re-visit the facts. So I watched his sermons. And other than the three strikes bullshit, and the government developing AIDS to target blacks, there wasn't much I could disagree with. America has failed minorities in the 232 years of its existence, and racism is very well much alive in this country. However, those with privileged lifestyles don't see it. I've seen it all my life though, I was born in a city with a corrupt civil government, high unemployment, few jobs, and a population that is 53% African-American. I hear tales from my aunt who substitute teaches in those schools, the children barely behave, and they have no home life to speak with. How is one supposed to learn in an environment like that? How is one supposed to advance in an area like that? The simple answer is "move", but kids can't do that until they are 18, and by then we have already failed them. However, the answer isn't to just throw more money at the problem, it's to remove the corruption and the barriers within the schools to learning. So yes, to a certain extent, I agree with Wright, America has failed its minority groups, and especially the blacks.
Very interesting, because I see that is being a problem of numerous individuals including the OP for this thread on this very subject. You seem to be ignoring the fact that Jeremiah Wright doesn't care about "minorities". His only interest is that of Blacks, and the same type of hatred and divisive attitudes promoted by individuals such as Farrakhan. I can't find many churches that harbor the same level of resentment towards entire groups of people based simply off of race and inaccurate, downright stupid conclusions such as those identified by Jeremiah Wright. I think you are intentionally ignoring the significance of Wrights divisive hate speech. I completely disagree with Wright. The only people who have failed the blacks are the blacks themselves. They can continue to blame America, they can continue to be racist about it and continue to blame their problems on "Whites" in America. None of that is going to make them successful or prosperous. Until they are ready to get off of their butts like Michelle and Barack chose to and work their rear ends off to struggle through investing in themselves and their educations they will continue to see the problems they do now. The US government cannot save them from themselves. It is not the US governments or the "whites" to do that.
You can completely disagree, but it wouldn't make you right. Nothing will make blacks more prosperous until they have the same educational opportunities as whites, and I don't see that happening around here.
The same educational opportunities? Are they being denied public educations? They sure as hell are not. Are they taking advantage of that free public education? Some are, some aren't. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink. Again, this "community" is choosing not to make the most of themselves. That is not the US governments job. That is an individual decision completely.
So when blacks have to actually compete to get scholarships and get into good schools instead of being handed one based on the color of their skin everything will be a-okay for them? Or when we stop promoting people based on the color of their skin or what is between their legs and go back tot promoting based entirely on who the best person for the job is? I'm perfectly okay with that.
And um, how are you supposed to better yourself in school if the rest of your classmates make it damn near impossible for the teacher to teach. Go on, I'm waiting.
