M-4 civilian versions advice please?

Okay, my son is going to wire me money to buy him an M-4 while he's in Korea, and he can of course take possession when he's stationed stateside.

Anyway, I know that the AR-15 is the legal version of the M16.
But he prefers the smaller M-4. So what is the civilian semi-auto version of the M-4? Of course he got spoiled with laser sighting (kids these days!) so he'll need that option. Any advice?

What sucks is I can't use it for deer hunting here on Fort Gordon until he gets home, because Fort Gordon is "slugs only" shotguns...no rifles.

Yes, the .223 is about the bare legal minimum for deer, but still do-able, but it's a moot point for me regardless. Discuss and advise me folks!

Seems to be the S&W M&P15.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong.

What you're talking about is a Straw Purchase and is actually a Federal Felony. You're buying a gun for someone that can't, legally, take possession of the weapon at the time of purchase. That's a minimum of 25 years in the Federal Butt Hut and you just confessed intent to commit the crime on a website that has been monitored by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies in the past.

Tell him to wait until he gets back and buy his own damned rifle.

With that said, go here. Have him punch in the zip code. It shows a Colt 6920, the gold standard for base model Civilian M4's, in stock at a store near Augusta, GA for $1,175. He can buy it as soon as he gets home.

Doesn't that apply to purchasing it for someone who cannot legally take possession of it due to legal reasons, he's not in the U.S. not legally insane or a felon. All that is needed is to transfer it to his name when he takes possession of it.

No. Read Question 11A. Then go read the explanation of Question 11a on Page 4. The exact situation described is covered in the example.

HOWEVER. If Oldfella really, REALLY WANTS to buy an M4, then it turns out he doesn't want it so he sells it to his son, that would be perfectly legal.

About what he needs, but this example is chambered for 22LR rimfire. He wants the .223, but thanks.

I'm trying out Elwoods site link in a minute.

HA! All kinds of Colt (they engineered them, I might as well trust the real deal) 6920 and variants, all costing around a grand plus or minus.

That said, this is the pre Obamapanic price. Once the whole "gun control" issue blows over, prices will come back down to the grand mark.

I figure this should happen about the time he returns from Korea.

Of course he'll need laser sighting, but other than that nothing fancy.

Then again, now that he's with Medical people instead of grunts, he has to shoot iron sights. If that continues he might learn to appreciate them, thus saving himself some money. Better yet if I can outshoot him (especially with speed) on any given weapon with iron sights to his laser sighting, it might drive the point home.

Regardless, I'll have locations for him to purchase all scouted out for his return. What a great Christmas gift! "You''l put your eye out with that thing!"

does it have to be .223?

The instructions are as he says. One thing to note is that it's okay to make the purchase in your own name if it's going to be a gift for someone who's eligible to own rather than a purchase for someone else. The instructions don't say how much of your own money you have to put up for it to be considered a gift, but you might want to check.

Good point Burger King! I'll check into if they are chambered in .243 or .270 or some other more versatile (let low recoil) round, so should he decide to deer hunt he can.

His other weapon choice is a pistol, 9 mil semi-auto no doubt. Today's souped-up 9 mil rounds have the power of a .357, which is plenty for self defense and target shooting fun.

It's OK. The Obama administration doesn't prosecute straw purchases.

My advice is build one from scratch, it'll run you 1/2 to 2/3rd the cost of a factory built and it'll only take you a few hours to build, just watch the detents. As for a good round, i WOULD recommend 6.5 grendel, but it can be really hard to come by, you'd probably do better with 6.8 spc.

That's cuz they're busy shipping the guns to Mexican drug gangs.

I would argue that an "M4", built to military spec (minus the auto/burst fire control and shorter barrel) is an "M4." They largely use the same parts so if you buy a S&W or a Colt or something, you pay a premium for a name. I'd just go to a gun show and walk around until you find the one you like. That's what I did.

I was looking for one with a free-floated barrel, rail foregrip, collapsible stock (of course) and flip-up iron sights. I didn't need the removable carrying handle--just a top rail is fine, thank you--but I wanted to be sure I had a forward assist and a brass deflector. Mine has a lot more Magpul parts on it than I'd have liked, but I can live with that for what I paid.

The things to consider are that it is rated for .223 and 5.56 (and yes, you should almost certainly get it in the predominant caliber and not some wildcat caliber, as much as I like some of the 6.x caliber ballistic performance). If you don't you can risk blowing up the upper receiver. A chromed barrel is definitely nice to have. The other thing to look for is barrel twist. Mine has 1:9 instead of the military 1:7. That means it won't effectively stabilize some of the heavier military ammo. Frontline will tell you you need the 1:7 and he seems to know his stuff. I won't disagree with him. But there are a fair number of people on the Internet who will tell you that a 1:9 twist will be fine for pretty much anything you need.

What is limited to 69 grain rounds? 1:7, 1:8 or 1:9? And is that limited as in "exlusively" or as in "Up to"?

... Unless you discuss doing otherwise on a board that is prone to federal monitoring....

This is only true if you work for a Mexican drug cartel.

So, what, you guys think...on the strength of this thread the BATFEIO is going to supoena Lanzman to find out Oldfella's identity so that they can stop a veteran from buying a gun for his son who is in the military, deployed overseas?

Is it a Federal crime to give someone a new guy for Christmas?

Do you think the Feds are going to throw Gabby Giffords' astronaut husband in prison? He apparently bought an AR-15 that he didn't intend to keep.

- Volpone

A new guy? No way....he hardly plays with the guy I got him last year during my Asian sex tour!

Anyway, yes I know an M4 is fully auto - when I say a civilian version of the M4 it's almost the same except semi-auto. I never even used the fully auto feature on my military weapons when I was in, I have less use for it now, and of course my son doesn't need it either.

Yes those 6920 sure seem to be great weapons. Hell I'd like to have one myself for an all-around weapon. Eventually I'll move out West (parents getting older) where there is mucho gub/mint/public land so I can shoot without having to join a gun club/go to a shooting range.

How awesome would it be to sit on that jury?

O_o

freudian slip aside, pretty sure that the transfer of human beings is illegal.

I was at a gun show last month and AR's were selling for $1500 or more. I was at another one this weekend and prices were pretty close to normal. Ammo seems to be coming down too.

One of my coworkers went to a gun show here over the weekend. He said that the vast majority of M4geries were in the $1500 range.

Then he asks me, "Is the Smith and Wesson AR any good? 'cause I saw one of those for $800."

Me: x10

...

"Did you buy it???"

Him: "No, my wife would've been pissed."

Me:

...

"You need to get your woman under control. "

That's what I don't understand. Isn't there an exception for those people who are giving a gun as a gift?

I mean I bought my Ruger 10/22 a couple years ago but now I want to give it to someone. Am I committing a crime? Obviously I'm not.

So why would buying one say in November and giving it to a person for a Christmas gift in December make my actions regarding the form 4473 illegal?

Did the person give you the money or promise to give you the money for the firearm when you purchased it? Could they not purchase it at the time?

That is my understanding of a straw purchase.