Plenty of people say they don't though and to do so can still tear a family apart. How is the analogy horrible? I'm purely looking at it from a "this is what I firmly believe to be true" standpoint, from which perspective it matches up pretty damn well. edit: Also it bugs me that you not only discount Novas beliefs as being insincere, but also effectively call her a liar when she says that for decades she tried to take advantage of the option you say is there with it not helping one damn bit.
They already have. When someone tosses "spiritual", or "supernatural", into a sentence, the Bullshit Lobe of the brain lights up like a christmas tree.
True. I'm not condoning it either, especially considering that a family in the Middle East that is Muslim will have an extremely tough time if there father decides he is a Christian. All I'm saying is that Nova has some obvious mental issues, so I'm a bit skeptical when he says that being a girl solves those problems. The 'science' is not cut and dried at all, even as much as some of you want to believe it.
One thing all that research talks about is WHY people feel this way. Why does someone decide to become a Christian when he's been a Muslim his whole life? Why does someone decide he is a girl when he's been a guy his whole life? Talking about his whole life here. Nova got married to a girl, so he obviously was attracted to her, and started a family. Never once during that time did he consider that perhaps it was the wrong choice? Or is it now years later when he runs into mental problems that he suddenly decides that a sex change is his only option. Why didn't he feel that stuff when he was 18 and single? Children exhibit those feelings too from what I've read. That is where there is a big difference between Nova and that Muslim dude who decides he wants to be a Christian. A gender disorder would be with you your whole life, whereas wanting to follow a different religion can come because of specific incidents in a person's life. Like witnessing a terrorist attack by one of your own faith. Or seeing the hypocrisy in your church. Bulldog mentioned reasons why he decided to leave the Catholic Church in a different thread. But a gender disorder? If it suddenly pops up when you're 40 years old, I would think you have a bunch of other issues that need fixed before you think being a girl will magically solve all your problems. And if Nova felt this way years ago when he was single, shame on him for getting married and putting his family through this. Just my thoughts. Guess I'm still a douche though.
Yes, you are. Nothing suddenly "pops up", it's stuffed down deep inside by societal conditioning and a desire to be "normal". It's much easier and more acceptable for a person to be gay than to be transgendered in today's society. TG's are looked at as freaks by a lot of people, who like you jump to a lot of erroneous conclusions based on your poor understanding of the subject. I've known people like Nova. Society tells them their feelings are wrong, and many of them try to suppress those feelings and live a life deemed normal by society. They get married, have kids, and do their best to push these feelings deeper down into the dark. The problem is that the feelings never go away, and when they are suppressed that leads to depression, anxiety, and sometimes suicide. It's the brave ones like Nova who finally make the decision to be their true selves, regardless of what society thinks. It's not a perfect situation, especially when so many have tried to live another life, which can have some negative consequences to those people's relationships. But in the end, it's much better to be true to themselves than to continue life by living a lie.
!!!!!! What?!?!??!?!?! I wan't even TALKING to Nova. Why does "I think you're being selfish" have to automatically invoke Jesus? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
It is selfish because, for one thing, the vow to honor your wife isn't being kept when you change sexes.
Hardly. The point is that anything having to do with the possibility of the human spirit sends scientists and people like your running for the hills. You would rather ridicule than actually study and learn something.
Society can just fuck off. It doesn't get to say anything, about anything, to anyone, anymore. Ever. Its government has failed, its corporations are crooks, its television is garbage, its music is brainwashing treacle, its churches are sewing circles for bigots, and its greatest boldest dreams have gone from outer space, to fucking reality shows about rich bimbos. Everyone would do well to disregard "society", not just trans folk.
Running for the hills? Hardly. Bring me some fucking ectoplasm, and I'd be excited. It'd be good shit to play with.
Yeah, and right there is the problem. If this shit has been going on for a long time now, Nova is the most selfish bastard in the world for getting married and starting a family.
Y'know ... some people change in far worse ways after they get married. Some women marry who they think is the man of their dreams and eventually find they've ended up with an alcoholic ... an emotional or physical abuser ... or a stunted man-child who, after 20 years of marriage, leaves her and the kids to go bounce around with a cute little 22-year-old. Nova's wife married Shep, a good, decent, honorable man ... and some time later, ended up married to Nova, a good, decent, honorable woman. Of course it's not ideal, for either of them. I'll be the first to admit that if a woman I was dating or married to decided to transition to being a man, the relationship would not survive. But short of continuing to live a lie, Nova seems to have done everything possible to do right by her spouse and family.
Why people think it's okay to comment/troll in the red room on other posters' real-life situation is beyond me. None of us are in Nova's shoes and therefore are not in any position to judge.
They're dead inside, died a long time ago. Acts of petty internet caprice send weak little shivers down their rotting nerves that remind them what it was like to once be human. These memories make them angry, so they lash out even more. It's a vicious cycle.
Wait a minute! dkehler went on to say "None of us are in Nova's shoes and therefore are not in any position to judge." And if I'm not mistaken you're judging.
You're mistaken. When you point at roadkill, and observe that it's dead, is that a value judgement? No, banal statement of fact. Now, go to sleep.
it occurs to me that certain bits of this thread, where I've spoken in my defense, are too "Blue Room" for my tastes. It implies my life and my choices are the ONE among the membership where which is open for public discussion and critique. Fuck that. I have a Blue Room thread for discussing my specific life situation, as many other members here do, and THERE I will discuss ME. HERE I will discuss only GENERAL concepts. What is GENERALLY true of generic persons who transition while married or parents, what is generally true of the medical outcome, what is the generally understood basis for where this condition comes from, and so forth. I can't STOP people from trolling my private life, but I will not facilitate it either.
It is ultimately spiritual - since no one can REALLY look into the mind of another and form an objective opinion conclusions can only be based on outside observation which is necessarily flawed. BUT it is also physical, despite the denials of folks who can't be bothered to educate themselves on the subject. there is legitimate mainstream verifiable scientific evidence which supports the conclusion that transsexualism is a physiological, not a psychological, condition. It's just that some folks prefer their knee-jerk bias to actual information.
And yet you feel perfectly comfortable making declarative statements about a subject which you have not studied at all and which you admit that (in your view) the science is not settled. if the science is not settled, upon what basis do you conclude that a transsexual has "mental issues"?
For those without the common sense to figure this out for themselves, let me just give you a small bit of help: EVERY FUCKING "CONCERN" THAT AZURE HAS RAISED IN THIS THREAD HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED AT PAINFUL AND EXHAUSTIVE LENGTH IN MY BLUE ROOM THREAD. Only a moron persists in "asking question" (for which he has already assumed a false answer) which have already been thoroughly answered because he can't be arsed to avail himself of the already existing source of information.
