Obama Announcement: OSAMA BIN LADEN DEAD

I agree, since I have personally sworn to uphold the priciples of due process. But, at the same time, I think Captain J has a point. Hostage taking was a distinct possibility and was it worth risking those extra lives when this isn't really a case of needing a jury to establish whether or not it was beyond reasonable doubt that he was behind 9/11 when he, himself, had admitted it on countless occasions and there is intelligence information to support his admission?

Then why is KSM or any one of a number of others any different? Those people are getting trials, however imperfect.

Osama is the figurehead and the top.

Correct me if I am wrong, but have we not already seen hostages taken with demands for Islamic fundementalists to be released?

Your statement reads as if we haven't.

No, I'm aware of that. And yet trials are proceding. Due process hasn't been (completely) abandoned on those cases due to the possibility of hostage-taking.
I think it's a very weak argument. In reality, people just don't give a fuck and want revenge.

^ You as usual display your idiocy. If you don't see a diffeence between the moral and motivational leader whom everybody knows and is the rallying cry of the movement and KSM who is much smaller in every way, your either disingenuous or stupid. Knowing you it is likely both.

I'm tempted to place you on ignore alongside KIRK and Sokar, given your reflexive resort to insult and other crudities whenever someone disagrees with you.

I am always happy to disagree with someone. However, many times your opinions seem to stem from your hatred of America. It's very hard to debate like that. However, you are correct about insults and I will refrain from using them in the future. They do add nothing regardless.

I agree with Captain J in his thought process however - keeping OBL captive is sure to cause problems. It's the same basic thought process as blaming that asshole for burning the Quran - it in of itself isn't a problem, however it's very likely to cause deaths.

That being said, the only reason I don't nab that fucker is if I think AQ is basically done as an organization, because otherwise the intel alone is worth it.

Unfortunately, I can't think that was the administration's thought process. Because they've stopped the nasty interrogation techniques, they know they wouldn't get much out of him. And they aren't willing to go back on that, because it would cost them too much politically with their base.

So I tend to think there was a political calculation about whether to grab him or not, and I don't care for that.

Still, dead is dead, and it does give the benefit of no hostage taking to free him.

But man, if they could have grabbed him and leaned on him AQ would have been d-o-n-e done.

We were stupid enough to admit that we have them. That's why they're getting trials. They should have simply been "disappeared."

No it wouldn't. That is not how Al-Qaeda works.

AQ is not a unified single organisation in the same was a country or a military might be. It is a loose association made up of many independent terror cells throughout the world who happen to follow the ideals laid out by Bin Laden and his advisers. Some are directly linked to Bin Laden, some are not. Point is that it is highly unlikely that Bin Laden has full knowledge of where every potential cell is in the world and it's quite possible that we will be hit by such a cell in the future. After all, it happened in the past with the London Bombings through a terrorist cell radicalised by Bin Laden & Co's teachings, but ultimately disconnected from the Al-Qaeda "command structure" itself.

I think we need to accept that Bin Laden gone or not we still have a significant threat out there that will continue for some time, irrespective of what information we may have been able to get out of him. There's always another tyrant waiting in the wings.

Looke like a development of the S-76, the Blackhawk's younger brother.

Couldn't disagree more. The independent groups haven't been successful outside of the middle east itself in several years. The London bombings were six years ago. Just because you choose to embrace the name Al Qaeda and claim you were inspired by OBL doesn't mean that you are a functional cell.

What makes AQ dangerous is the combination of a strong centralized core with the ability to fund, train and create operational planning with a dispersed volunteer force that is able to spring up under the radar locally and because of this are very difficult to track. The more proficient they become, the more exposure they have, as the make connections with the core structure. Remember in the past they granted numerous benefits, from training camps to explosives to operational planning.

Without said resources, the threat that any individual cell poses is minimal.

he shouldn't BE different. An error on the part of decision makers is all that makes him so.

You're opposed to trials for all terrorists now? Where does that logic end?

Reposted for certain posters that missed it earlier.

He more than earned it.

Yeah, but it's kind of short sighted, don't you think, to play up the derogatory nature of another member's post by threatening ignore, only to pull the same thing yourself?

No. You need to reread my post.

I would recommend you re-read mine first. Pay special attention to the end of the sentence.

As a general side note, did you know if you miss the letters for "p" and "y" by one letter each in "pay", you get "oat"? Just a note.

Nope, you're still refusing to read, I see.

Hint: My complaint was not about insults in themselves, which I'm more than happy to give and take.

I'm going to stop joking with you.

^
Most people in the Nazi ranks had their arms twisted into joining with threads against friends, family, business, ect. I've heard of more than one survivor who ended up in the camps because their German and non-Jewish father played hero and gave the Third Reich the finger.

That's a totally different thing from this terrorist organization, who agree with the message fullheartedly.

Also :

Dan, do you honestly not see the difference between the professional nazi army and the wacko insane nutbags recruited from the worst shitholes on earth. Are you just trolling or are you so myopic you really can't see the difference?

The Wehrmacht was not a professional army.

The difference being the MO of how the groups operated. WWII was a war against specific countries, trained armies and paramilitary groups. They were defeated at the end of the war.

In our present case we're fighting terrorist spread out everywhere, who operate under no central control and no rules. They are not defeated.

As a practical matter the surviving nazi's were not going to take hostages to free the captured SS guys. The Muslim terrorists certainly would use that option. You must look at each situation on it's own, not make comparisons to different situations that are not comparable.

Aside from the fact that he was a wacko nutbag, he is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the wacko insane nutbags around the world who would start taking hostages to bargain for his freedom. Do you really think the crazies would not try that? When they do this over and over how would you handle it?
Killing him avoided so many major problems it was certainly the correct thing to do.