Lie(t) has always been a troll, he was like this back in the long, long ago but the nuttiness really wasn't that evident because he was playing second fiddle to the king of the wacked out leftists, Dickdroica. The real Lie'tard became much more evident when TheMaster flew the coop.
He's more like a dusky Diacanu IMO! People who really think that this isn't so need only to look here. The "new" problems and "imminent death" of the board that a certain few are talking about have been complained about/predicted for YEARS now.
Or summarily ban posters who's only contribution is annoyance. I offer my services in judging these cases.
Wow. Both Cass and Parrallax think the board was going to crap. Guess that's the same as Elwood, Chris, Packard, Async and others who have voiced the opinion and the host of other people who have either left recently radically cut back on posting.
Granted, the three you mention can be nuisances in their own right, but with Sokar egging them on they become much worse. It also happens that, without fail, Sokar will pop up to spout off a couple of lines to them in the threads that they have "derailed". I can't say who started this cycle, it doesn't really matter anyway, the end result is the issue here. It doesn't matter who starts the derailing of discussions because by the end of it more posters will be involved than at the start and it becomes the problem of everyone who involves themselves (theirselves?) in it. I think if they (meaning anyone) wouldn't quote a rep comment to make a new post showing how much they don't care/ aren't bothered by it, topical conversations could continue unburdened.
Just Cass and Para? Are you being intentionally dense to help further your little pussy ass campaign to "better" the board? Ilsa made her little report and more than a few of the usual suspects in the whiner brigade over here nodded their heads and agreed completely with the conclusions drawn from Caelia's undercover mission. MEChA boy has been whining about the board for awhile. This is new? From Cass' final solution to the right wing question All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. People have left (John B, trannity, birdboi (from 04-to his recent reappearence/departure), JTK, etc, etc)/predicted the end of board before with nothing coming to pass and they'll keep on doing the same far into the future.
Uh, I don't ever remember saying or even thinking anything ressembling "the board is going to crap." I have pointed out that there have been "troll wars" recently, and that some of those who seem to rarely do anything more than troll in recent times used to contribute quite a bit to the board. I have even thought (but don't remember saying explicitely) that as these things come and go in waves, we have been in a "high cycle" for trolling the last few weeks. But just a few weeks before that, there was a time when there was a lot of excellent discussion on the board, and the trolling was restricted to a few threads that those who weren't interested in trolling could ignore. If I thought the board was "going to crap" I would have left long ago. That I didn't shows that I do not think that.
I guess I read more into your statements than you felt, my bad. However as you just restated many who used to contribute... don't. And this has been going on for quite some time. If not going to crap, would you say that this means the boards value has diminished some due to that fact?
I don't think I've seen Sokar derail a thread and ... I don't think I've ever gotten more than 5 or 6 neg reps from him. All he really does is tell everyone he's going to be really mean. When he does add to a discussion, he can be rational and, when he wants to be, calm. It's the others - from both sides - mentioned in this and other threads that are the problems. the thread derailers and the neg reppers. I think everyone here is putting too much of the blame on Sokar.
There are several posters here who can be really good and engaging, forming complex coherent arguments and providing links to sources that back them up, who seem to be happier playing Internet Thug most of the time. It's a phenomenon I don't really understand.
The board's "value" comes and goes. I think it is no secret to anyone that I prefer more serious debate, including real hard debate with those with whom I vehemently disagree, to trolling and childish name-calling. (Which of course does not prevent me from enjoying kidding around, laughing at spam when it is well done, and even contributing to it myself on occasion.) I ignore the real trolls as much as possible, and find that, for the most part, they ignore me. That suits us all fine. But I want to be very clear here: Even though I don't get anything out of the trolling, what I do appreciate about WordForge could not be here if we tried to put in rules that would eliminate the trolling. That kind of restrictive modding is not what I want. You want serious, strictly-moderated debate? Go to www.americasdebate.com. I posted there for a while (my account might even still be active, for all I know or care), and left. Because their restrictive rules, to prevent the kind of childishness that occasionally disrupts this place, stifled too much free exchange of ideas. But that suits some people, and that's fine with me. I do know that these things come in cycles. When debate has been too serious for too long, the tensions between the opposing sides (which is what makes WordForge worthwhile) build up into drama, flaming, derailing of threads, and so on. Then, when all of that goes too far, the posters in general react (as they did the last couple of days) and let people know that their efforts to "take over the territory" are not appreciated. And the cycle comes back down. I don't get a big thrill out of the "heavy trolling" part of the cycle. But I do not fear that it will destroy WordForge in the long run, because when it goes too far, it provokes other forces that bring it back in line. What I do fear, and what could destroy WordForge, are the admittedly well-intentioned but nevertheless ill-informed attempts to make that trolling pretty much impossible. "Been there, done that," as they say. One of the things people hold against me the most (and have the right to do so) is that I was very much in agreement with Lisa's attempts to turn TNZ into a forum for serious political, religious and philosophical debate, without all the trolling and flaming that often made it very childish as well. But one good thing did come from that: I learned, the hard way, that that doesn't work, and why it doesn't work. If those clamoring for rules and the banning of "troublesome posters" and "getting rid of rep because it's just a source of trouble" and all that kind of stuff get their way, I will not oppose them. But I will go away, not because I like the trolling, but because WordForge will no longer be what makes it unique and worthwhile. I applaud your efforts, but I am thoroughly convinced that, no matter how good your intentions, you are in error as to what you think ought to be done about the situation. The libertarian in me has spoken.
Who here has seriously advocated banning anyone or censoring anyone? So far the most I have seen on the table is getting rid of rep, and moving trolling/rep whine/board drama etc threads to a separate subforum of the RR. If you didn't leave when TBBS threads were moved to the Gray Room, or porn threads to the White, why would you leave over that?
Because the ability to annoy without fear of repercussions is probably the most cherished in places like this. That is the root of any objections you'll hear, regardless of how vehemently it is denied.
Liet has done so repeatedly and explicitely of late. So have a couple of other posters, though not quite as vocally. You haven't been here all the time. That said, rep is one of the things I like about WordForge. If it was shut off, I would not be as amused by the place. And I think your suggestion of letting people vote for moving whatever they deem to be "trolling/rep whine/board drama" to a separate subforum is a very bad idea. All that requires is a little over half of those who care enough to vote ganging up to get anyone's posts and/or threads complaining about anything moved "out of sight and out of mind." I was not much involved in WordForge at all at that time. I came here very quickly after it was set up (it was set up in July, 2003, when I was at scout camp, as usual, and when I got back to TBBS there was a PM waiting for me from Prufrock who invited me to join up, which I did almost immediately-- only a few weeks after everyone else came), but quickly decided I didn't want to be involved much because the board specifically allowed and even encouraged trolling attacks on TBBS. I didn't begin to post here regularly, even though I was a member all along, until that calmed down. That means that for the first couple years of the board's life, I was not very active as a poster. However, the difference between that and your suggestion is that that modification was made on the basis of an objective thread subject--if it's about TBBS or another site, it goes in the Gray Room; if it's pornography, it goes in the White Room--whereas your suggestion is about a subjective evaluation of thread content. If you can't see the difference between those two, and the incredible implications for causing significantly more problems than the suggestion would cause, then I won't try to convince you. But you sure aren't going to convince me, either.
That's Liet, these days you can't take what he says much more seriously than Sokar, both are too wrapped up in their persona. I'm talking about those parties who are actively trying to improve the place. Eh, I can take it or leave it. Every other time it has come up I've been for keeping it, but recently branched out and found I didn't miss it when posting at other boards all that much. Yeah there were a couple times I wish I had it, but not enough to overcome the BS it has caused here. Uh... I have never suggested anything of the sort. Apparently I'm not the only one reading too much (or too little!) into others posts! So in otherwords, it was when the Bullshit was moved to the Gray Room that you came back? Um... yeah. It's not that hard to tell a troll thread when you see it. Now posts are one thing, but considering the majority of troll threads have the other persons name on it, I don't see how subjective the call would be. Also when Mewa/Apostle, Garamet/Sokar et all go at and derail a thread it doesn't take a super genius to see it. Not to mention they wouldn't be silenced, just moved to where their inability to interact like an adult would have it's very own forum to blossom and grow!
Hoooooly shit. Are you being serious? Cause if you are..... I agree 110%. And I even admit I've been a part of derailing perfectly fine threads at times too. Just the other day Farmerboy negged me once in the thread Tex started about Chris joining the army. I apologized, and moved on.
Its actually quite fun to stir shit at times. That is part of why I love WF, and why I stuck around after a rather boring start. The ability to post whatever the hell I wanted.
I've never had a problem with Sokar, so, yes, I'm serious. However, he doesn't like that sometimes I defend garamet. But, honestly, he's like the great big st bernard next door. He barks really loud and makes a lot of noise, but, he's really harmless. His name is Max, but I call him George - remember those Looney Toon cartoons with the big bulldog and the little chiuaua(sp) jumping around yipping 'You're my pal, George, aren't ya, cuz you're so big and strong.' Hmmm... maybe I'll start calling Sokar George.
Censoring people is exactly what Garamet, Liet, 14thDoc and their crowd wants. Its why they wanted all political threads to be moved to the Green Room. Because, by doing that....they'll 'shutup' all the 'trolls'....which is quite ironic, considering all 3 of them are trolls too. They want the Red Room to die, and by wanting that, they want the idea behind being able to say whatever the hell we want....to die also. That is EXACTLY why I have a problem with ANY political thread in the Green Room. Garamet can say whatever the fuck she wants, but she stirs more shit up than anyone 10 other posters combined.
You don't think it has anything to do with the fact that it's damn near impossible to have a political thread in the RR? On the plus side this whole thing has caused the usual suspects to be on best behaviour in order to keep Lanzman from actually doing something... anything. We'll see how long that lasts after this all blows over.
It is quite possible to have a decent discussion in the Red Room. Until Garamet comes along and starts playing her mind games that is. Seriously, try posting some shit here, and see what happens. All it takes is some kind of decent effort. Even Dickyboy can let go of the childish games and involve himself in some sort of decent debate. I've seen it happen enough.
"Backbone" is not demonstrated on a fucking internet message board. Nothing anyone does here proves them a courageous badass.
Nobody wants all political threads moved to the GR. The idea was to allow political threads in the GR.
