Russian tanks enter South Ossetia

Looks like we have some RAF units in Georgia, so i really hope they have some Rapier C's with them.

Yeah, but have we got a good reason to think this is bullshit? If (!) the inhabitants of the area have a majority that wants to split from Georgia, then Georgia's government hasn't got the right to hold them back IMO.

My only sort of reference here is the Ukraine, where I've spoken to both West (Ukrainian) and East (quasi-Russian) citizens, and there the shared perspective seems to be that the populace in the East *wants* out, at least in the face of the strongly anti-Russian politics in the current Ukraine. If this is similar -- and it looks as if it is -- I'm not sure Russia is wrong, as little as we might like them.

I really just don't know.

I'd just like to point out since I haven't seen it posted yet but the Russians in the last couple of years have handed out thousands upon thousands of Russian passports/citizenships to people in Georgia. Nice way to protect your citizens when you create them out of no where.

IMHO Russia is trying to prevent Georgia from controlling that pipeline they are building and from joining NATO. In fact I'd go as far as to say that Russia is going to try and retake back everything it lost in 91.

Just wait until Obama gets in office. Then we will really see some Russian maneuvers.

Now been reported that the Russians have lost 10 planes and 30 tanks so far.

Port city of Adjara(?) has been heavily bombed.

If memory serves, the Georgians have gotten a lot of US hardware in recent months and we tend to not sell our top of the line gear to other nations. Hmm. Looks like the Russians haven't improved their quality control measures since communism fell. Something to think about when Putin talks about Russian "military might."

Yeah it's funny how the Abkhaz separatists have just started fighting today and they have Russian planes and arty.

(abkhaz is another part of Georgia)

The Ossetians are trivial at this point; our concern lies with keeping the Bear down, and making good on our promises to Georgia.

Besides, if they want out, let 'em move back to Russia.

Yes, and?

In this case, using the term the Russians are using is remaining neutral. In the case discussed prior, the language was solely the choice of the journalist. Who has an obligation to remain neutral.

Ahh, the heady days of Reagan and the 600 ship Navy and...

nevermind.

Why? (On all of the above.)

Okay, without reading much of the thread, some comments...

I'm not sure that there's a right or wrong in this situation. Both major players seem to be at fault. Unfortunately it's the people of South Ossetia who are caught in the middle.

This is part of a geopolitical struggle between the US and Russia for control of the Caucuses and central Asia.

I'd also point to some precedent sestablished in Kosovo for seperatist movements. The Russians had been against Kosovan independance and warned that if the west supported it, they'd be giving them the go-ahead for this sort of thing.

Yes, but in that case it was native Kosovans wanting independance, not Russians who failed to leave when they had the opportunity.

Are we sure that it's the Georgia in Europe that's fighting with Russia right now?

'cause these boys are going to war in pickup trucks.

Muad? WTF are you up too again?

I don't understand the difference. The Russians in Ossetia seem to be as native there for several generations as the inhabitants of Kosovo.

The Russians are hypocritical bastards. They flattened Chechnya when the Chechens wanted independence, they bitched and whined when Kosovo was given independence yet here they are actively supporting a breakaway territory. Who cares if the people of Ossetia are Russian citizens? If they have Russian passports then I'm sure the Russkies would gladly welcome them to the motherland, and leave Georgia intact and in peace.
But no, Russia would rather pummel another hapless opponent into the ground.

I don't care about the Ossetians, because I'm a political realist. Russia's only going to become emboldened and try to bully her former subjects (Ukraine, Baltics) with the threat of military force/economic warfare.

Furthermore, Georgia has been a staunch ally of the United States and Europe. If we sit back and do nothing, we're proving exactly what our word means, and all of our defense treaties will be reexamined.

Hm. This assumes that your loyalty should be to the allies in Georgia's government, but not to those citizens in Ossetia. In all likelihood, some of the soldiers they sent to Iraq are from that region. Perhaps some of them, or many, want independence? It's difficult to divide loyalties like this.

Not on any bulletin I saw...

Not in any i have seen, they are very much of the side of Georgia.

Hm. I've almost lost the habit of reading German newspapers, but I noticed two of them had headlines with variations to "Georgia mounts attack against separatist nation of Ossetia".

Which just goes to show there are many ways to report this, and I'm still not sure anyone's right or wrong.

I saw a report earlier today on Fox or CNN calling the Russians "Peace Keepers."

Something not mentioned in this thread so far is that Georgia has 2K troops in Iraq.

Georgia has no heavy lift, we had to take them there.

Georgia has asked us to take their troops home.

The Russians have said that any American planes bringing troops to the region 'will not be allowed to land.'





Not quite sure what that means, but it ain't good.

So...if American aircraft were trying to land they would be shot down?
That could get ugly!

So Russians are denying Georgians access to Georgia?

Isn't that what belligerents do?

Nuke them all.

Seriously, the Russians not allowing Georgians to come home?

Then, by God, we take them home. The Russians aren't that stupid. Enough of the Old Guard is around to know how the game is played.

The Russians, they can be dealt with. Now, if this were the Chinese, it'd be different. They don't play by the old rules they're so alien they might as well be Klingons, to steal a phrase.

It's a bluff. A probe.