Star Trek: TNG Reviews - From Start to Finish!

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Robotech Master, May 26, 2009.

  1. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    Yeah, that was a standout from S1. Catherine (or was it Caroline?) McCormack has never looked as good before or since.
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  2. Marso

    Marso High speed, low drag.

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    I liked Conspiracy because of what came later, and I think it was a HUGE mistake not to turn those little crawlers into a recurring villain.

    TNG, instead of the Borg, could have had a 'Captain Metron' (?) going on there, where one never knew who could be trusted 100% and any cast member or guest star could have been a villain infiltrator without any forehead makeup.

    The Borg were okay in TNG, but they were actually too powerful an enemy- they had to be used very sparingly because let's face it, they were eventually going to WIN except maybe for Picard not pussing out on using Hugh to send back the 'geometric virus' or whatever to knock them all off.

    Okay, my nerd-o-meter just spiked and I need to STFU now.
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  3. Tex

    Tex Forge or die. Administrator Formerly Important

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    I agree 100% about not bring back the bugs as a recurring villain. I do think the Borg were perfect in TNG until the Hugh episode. The idea of the mega-powerful enemy lurking out there was great. They should have been mentioned more from episode to episode even just as a side note during briefings. But back then everything tended to be wrapped up in a box. If TNG were being made today I think it would be so much better because it would most likely be chalked full of huge story arcs.
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  4. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    Actually Seasons 1 & 2 of DS9 are generally considered poor while some (including Sci-Fi Universe magazine) consider Season Three to be basically "unwatchable".

    "Way of the Warrior" the two hour Season Four premier was considered to be effectively a "relaunch" of the entire series.

    DS9 while it was good when it was good, for all intents and purposes had only three great seasons. Season Four, Five, and Six.

    Season Seven fell down dramatically. In part because they spent so many episodes on Ezri Dax trying to build up her part in the ensemble (Ira Steven Behr later acknowledged this, saying they spent too much time in Season Seven trying to make Ezri Dax "important to the show" rather than just have her "taking up space" for the season)
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  5. Dayton Kitchens

    Dayton Kitchens Banned

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    If the Borg were handled properly in ST:TNG you would've had an episode

    1) featuring the Borg- like Q-Who

    2) an episode were the Enterprise was involved in wargames to develop strategies to fight the Borg- like Peak Performance

    3) an episode where the Enterprise tried to negotiate with a planet for a technology they could use against the Borg.

    4) an episode where the Enterprise explored the ruins of a civilization though to have been destroyed by the Borg

    5) an episode where the crew investigated rumors of a distant world under Borg attack.

    6) An episode where the Enterprise is brought into spacedock to be refit with weapons that could be used against the Borg.

    7) An episode where the Romulans (or Klingons) fearing the new weapons technology the Federation was developing to counter the Borg tried to seize that technology for themselves.

    8) An episode where a group of Starfleet officers come aboard the Enterprise to learn the methods of countering the Borg attack (Riker could fall for one of the female ones and get laid a few times, much to Troi's empathic annoyance).

    9) An episode where Picard has to go on a public speaking tour of Federation worlds to allay fears sweeping the citizens about the scope of the Borg threat.

    10) An episode where Starfleet decides they need to "fight Borg with borg" and start asking for volunteers to be modified with Borg technology.

    11) The Borg return in force.

    There you have it.

    The Borg are first encountered, fully ten episodes focusing on the Borg without ever showing them again (aside from simulations) before you have to bring them back.

    Note, those 10 episodes might be spread over two or more seasons.
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  6. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Home Soil

    Decent episode. It is probably the first episode in the series to directly address the mission statement of 'seeking out new lifeforms'.

    I liked seeing the crew tackle a problem through rigorous scientific method and some of the discussions about terraforming and the nature of life vs. nonlife were interesting.

    But this is a very academic episode. No real characterization, humor, or drama. I guess you could call it a hard sci-fi story. Slow placed but thoughtful. Nothing too silly in this episode but nothing too exciting either.

    I liked it, but then I am not the sort of person who needs action and shoot-em-ups in every episode. This is the sort of quiet episode that TNG did really well and which VOY seemed incapable of ever doing.

    Rating: **



    Coming Of Age

    Hmm. Overall, I liked this episode. We had two plots, one where Wesley is being tested as an applicant to Starfleet Academy, and one where Admiral Quinn and Lt. Remmick investigate a possible conspiracy aboard the Enterprise.

    Both plots were fairly entertaining and there were some good character moments on a few different fronts. This is probably the first episode where I really liked Wes and this episode was an important next step in his character arc. The testing was fun to watch, something I've always been curious about, and his new friend Mordok was an interesting guest character.

    I liked the implication that Wesley might have some issues about Picard and the decision Picard made that caused Wesley's father to die. It gives the character a bit of an edge and some motivation for why he might be trying so hard to impress Picard.

    Picard also got some development in this episode. He had stated in the pilot episode that he had trouble communicating with kids but in this episode he was able to reach out to both Wesley and another Enterprise teen who was having problems.

    Admiral Quinn's offer to make Picard the new Commandant of the Academy had some interesting implications and of course this is all a bit of a lead up to the episode y'all have just been discussing.

    I'll have to see 'Conspiracy' again to be sure... but I think at this point, Quinn is already under the aliens control. And I think Remmick is still who he claims to be. He seems a dogged investigator and a bit of an asshole, but he doesn't seem to be under alien control. Perhaps Quinn is not yet under control either and this investigation is what prompts the aliens to take control of these two. It's hard to say. Since we don't really know the characters, I can't say whether their behavior here is off.

    I did like the interrogation scenes and the references to all the past episodes like Justice, The Battle, The Naked Now, Where No One Has Gone Before, etc...

    This episode has some nice continuity with past episodes and future episodes and we are starting to see the development of arcs and running character threads on this show. We even get some insight into Worf in this episode, though he is still the most underutilized character by far.

    The low point of the episode was the stupid kid trying to steal a shuttlecraft he didn't know how to fly, but that was a minor thing. There was also some akward dialogue in spots so...

    Rating: ***
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  7. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Oh, and I have to disagree completely about the first three seasons of DS9 not being very good. What are we comparing them to? TOS?

    They are miles ahead of the first couple seasons of Enterprise, Voyager, and at least the first two seasons of TNG.

    But then again I've always liked the Bajor-Cardassia stories and the Maquis stories, and while the Dominion War was great, I never thought it was the be-all and end-all of DS9. It was an important part of the show but DS9 was about a lot more than that.

    And season seven was awesome, IMO. What other Trek series had the balls to do a ten episode series finale? There were some missteps, but the show was so much more ambitious than the other contemporary Treks, what can you really compare it to?

    B5? nuBSG?

    To hell with Sci-Fi Universe Magazine. DS9 was da shiznit.
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  8. Tex

    Tex Forge or die. Administrator Formerly Important

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    DS9 Season 2 had some good stuff. And Season 3 wasn't unwatchable by any means.

    Off the top of my head I can think of the following good episodes in Season One:
    Battle Lines
    Duet

    Season 2:
    The Home Coming
    The Circle
    The Seige
    Whispers
    The Maquis 1 & 2
    The Jem Hadar

    Season One was definitely the weakest. Season 2 has several other episodes of note that I just didn't want to throw into "good" but they were at least 3 stars on a 5 star scale in my opinion. I don't have time to elaborate more right now but I'll be back later.
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  9. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Really quickly, these would be my standouts from the first three seasons.

    DS9 S1:

    Emissary, Captive Pursuit, Vortex, Battle Lines, Duet, In The Hands Of The Prophets

    DS9 S2:

    The Homecoming/The Circle/The Siege, Necessary Evil, Whispers, Paradise, Blood Oath, The Maquis I & II, The Wire, Crossover, Tribunal, The Jem'Hadar

    DS9 S3:

    The Search part I, Second Skin, Defiant, Past Tense I & II, Destiny, Visionary, Through The Looking Glass, Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast, Explorers, The Adversary
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  10. Sokar

    Sokar Yippiekiyay, motherfucker. Deceased Member

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    Paladin, Robo... you guys rock. It's like having our on Siskel and Ebert.

    I applaud your efforts. Very interesting. You guys are going to be so worn out by Season 7. Best I rememeber, I thought I was having an acid flashback that year. Weird as hell.

    :salute:
    Last edited: May 31, 2009
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  11. The Original Faceman

    The Original Faceman Lasagna Artist

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    Yeah, DS9 was great.

    Season 1 was them getting their feet wet but they accomplished a lot more than TNG did in its first season. You actually learn who the characters are far more than the cardboard cutouts of TNG. You see them interact socially more too. Season 1 was memorable for Emissary, Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets, Progress, Battle Lines, to name a few.

    Season 2 started off pretty cool - a 3 parter, again proving DS9 would go places no other Trek had gone (or apparently would go in the future). I'd also note the Maquis two parter, the wire, the Collaborator, Rules of Acquisition, Shadow Play (a unique holodeck episode), Tribunal and of course The Jem Hadar.

    Season 3 unwatchable? WTF? The shit they were doing there was way ahead of the curve.
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  12. Baba

    Baba Rep Giver

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    The Host did introduce the trill to us.
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  13. evenflow

    evenflow Lofty Administrator

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    I just want to say that as a fellow Okie, I'm very proud of Robotech for undertaking this.

    Watered down 3.2% beer next time in Tulsa buddy. :techman:
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  14. Paladin

    Paladin Overjoyed Man of Liberty

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    Home Soil: a re-spin of 'The Devil in the Dark' except the humans and strange new lifeforms don't negotiate a settlement at the end. Mostly forgettable. Data attacked by (and surviving) the lasers is a good moment. A typically (for TNG) misanthropic platitude about human beings not being civilized enough for alien contact thrown in at the end leaves a sour taste in my mouth. *

    Coming Of Age: the Starfleet Academy thread is pretty interesting, but, typically, Wesley is an intolerable know-it-all; Remick brought some MUCH needed conflict among the crew (so much so that I remember wishing he'd be added as a regular), but his investigation thread is merely the setup for 'Conspiracy.' You'd think it would be pretty hard to steal a shuttlecraft off the Enterprise, too. RM suggests something I want to pick up on: wouldn't a more interesting relationship for Wesley and Picard have been for Wesley to deeply resent Picard for his father's death? Ah, well. Still, a decent enough episode. **1/2
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  15. Baba

    Baba Rep Giver

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    Why couldn't kareel have been a main cast member she was pretty cute.
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  16. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Oh, yeah, definitely. But I guess that was too much character conflict for Gene. But at least we got Cmdr. Sisko resenting Picard for the death of his wife!


    Heart Of Glory

    Some firsts in this episode. First substantial Worf episode. First Klingon episode of the 24th century. I think this episode showed a good transition from the movie-era Klingons to the 24th century Klingons.

    And this episode is the start of a very LONG character arc for Worf. In hindsight, it is kind of funny to think of how much impact Worf will have on the entire quadrant.

    But, right now, he is just struggling with his two halves. Korris is a pretty interesting Klingon. He is not scheming like Duras or Gowron, he just wants to fight. The actor playing Korris did a good job. The other Klingon actor, not so much.

    There were some good action scenes in this episode; the away team's escape from the exploding freighter and then the shootout on the Enterprise. And Worf finally got to kick some ass in this episode! And we got to see the Klingon death howl for the first time. We also got the backstory on Worf's upbringing and foster family, whom we will meet in future episodes.

    Even the scenes with Geordi transmitting from his visor weren't too bad. Kind of pointless, but it doesn't really bring the episode down.

    It is ironic that Klingons would go on to use to Geordi's visor for sabotage in The Mind's Eye and Generations.

    Good Klingon episode, but better ones are coming.

    Rating: ***




    The Arsenal Of Freedom

    This was another good action episode. The concept of a race of arms dealers whose own weapons destroy them doesn't seem too original but the episode doesn't dwell on that too much.

    Instead we get some good character moments and another nice use of the ensemble. Troi even got to do something useful as a Counselor for once when she gave Geordi advice on running the ship. The conflict with the Chief Engineer seemed a little unnecessary to me, but they put the saucer separation to good use in this episode.

    Is this the last time we see the saucer separation on this show?

    I also liked the adaptive automative weapons that kept popping up and the holographic arms merchant.

    Rating: ***




    Y'know, I really like the TNG cast so much more than the VOY cast. The TNG characters don't ever get as much growth and development as the DS9 characters (with the exception of Worf, Data, and Picard) but they are all pretty likable. Troi was useless, and Yar, Geordi, and Crusher were underdeveloped but they never really annoyed me. Even Wesley got better with time. I liked the whole cast.

    On the other hand, I couldn't stand the Voyager characters. Janeway was schizo, the Doctor and Seven were often annoying, Chakotay was a constant blank stare, and I often hoped Kim and/or Neelix would get shoved out of an airlock.
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  17. Baba

    Baba Rep Giver

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    Who is the Master Chief on the Enterprise D? Seems a flagship would need one.
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  18. Ramen

    Ramen Banned

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    The saucer is again separated during the second of the two-part episode Best of Both Worlds during the battle with the Borg cube. It was Commander Shelby's idea.

    [action=Ramen]slits his wrists.[/action]
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  19. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Symbiosis

    Drugs are bad, mmmkay? That is basically what this episode boils down to. The episode started out okay and it was kind of cool to see the guys who played Joachim and David Marcus from ST II... but the episode kind of went downhill after that.

    I think Picard made the right choice to not interfere in this case. Sometimes people need to solve their own damn problems, IMO. The low point of the episode was when Tasha was trying to explain drug addiction to Wesley and he just didn't get it.

    This was another of those episodes were the enlightened 24th century humans look down at us foolish 20th century humans. Too bad the lesson in this one was as subtle as a hammer.

    The Brekkian woman was kinda hot though.

    Rating: *
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  20. Archangel

    Archangel Primus Peritia

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    I think that's one of the reasons nuTrek is so popular, it doesn't treat the 20/21st century as something they are ashamed of.
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  21. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    I frackin' hated the episode where the Borg appeared. I knew that the writers had painted themselves into a corner with the Borg being so powerful. (And Picard getting Q to save them at the last minute? No way Kirk would have ever considered anything like that. He'd have fired the warp core set to detonate at the Borg cube before he ever asked Q to save their bacon.)

    What they should have done, was end the episode with the TNG folks not knowing exactly how powerful the Borg were, but that they were some badassed mofos, who could potentially put a hurtin' on the Federation. Dayton, I think, has a good model for how they could have handled things.
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  22. Zombie

    Zombie dead and loving it

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    Agreed. In fact you could have had those little rascals take over enough of Star Fleet that they decide to take on the rest of Star Fleet and had a nice little Civil War. ;)

    I do wish they had followed through on it and ignored the fat in their mom's basement crybabies.
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  23. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Skin Of Evil

    Ah, been looking forward to commenting on this episode. I know I've seen parts of it before but it has been such a long time since I've seen these episodes, it is almost like watching the show again for the first time.

    This was a strange one. I'm not sure exactly what happened with Denise Crosby or why she left the show, but this episode seemed to have been constructed completely around the idea of writing her out of the show.

    Whatever the reasons, I'm kind of sorry she is gone. She wasn't a bad character and given time I am sure she would have gotten as much development as the other characters. And she was easy on the eyes.

    Ironically, her death may have actually helped some of the other characters come into better focus. Worf definitely stepped up in this episode. Even Troi was effective in this episode. Again, good use of the ensemble.

    Armus.... an interesting creature. The special effects for the creature were not very good but the character was unique. He was just pure evil and no amount of reasoning would work on him. Even Data agreed that destroying him was the only option. This is the sort of character you don't usually see on TNG.

    The funeral for Tasha was nice. And she would continue to impact the show in different ways over the course of the series. So, in that sense, her death was not completely pointless.

    I don't know if I'd call this a good episode but it was interesting to watch. I wasn't bored at least.

    Rating: **




    We'll Always Have Paris

    Not exactly a time travel episode, but it was the first of many episodes on TNG to deal with the nature of time. And it was a good Picard episode. And I liked the Jenice Manheim character.

    There were some pleasant character moments in this episode and the ending, with the three Datas attempting to seal the rip in time, is also memorable.

    I don't have a whole lot else to say about this episode. But it was a good one.

    Rating: ***
  24. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Crosby left the show because she felt they weren't doing anything with her character. Of course, nothing much seemed to happen with her career after she left, either.
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  25. Dan Leach

    Dan Leach Climbing Staff Member Moderator

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    They were a few episodes into a run that would end up in the 100's, what did she expect, to have made captain by show 5?
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  26. LizK

    LizK Sort of lurker

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    Look - she was probably hoping that she would do more than the security equivalent of "hailing frequency open" -- actually she WAS saying that a lot as well as locking on the phasers and photon torpedos.

    As security chief, she was responsible for the safety of the captain, the crew and the ship. We never got to see that aspect of the job, let alone the person until Worf got the job. I don't recall seeing her ever in on any planning briefings the way we saw Worf.

    I agree that she might have been a bit premature - but she did have a point.
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  27. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    I don't agree with any of that. It became more accessible in Season 4 perhaps, but it was neither poor nor unwatchable in the first three years.
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  28. Shirogayne

    Shirogayne Gay™ Formerly Important

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    There's a reason why DS9 was called "Deep Sleep Nine" for the first season. But even that was three steps up from TNG's first seasons and after that, the show improved by leaps and bounds each and every single year.

    It was a mistake on their part, for sure, but I gotta give the guy kudos for trying. It says something when a character that appears in one season got more development than most on Voyager and Enterprise got the entire duration of their shows. :no:

    I would have preferred that Ezri was a guest star for half the season...or perhaps limit the appearances to the season premiere and finale. The last season is the absolute wrong time to add a new central character to the show.
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  29. Robotech Master

    Robotech Master '

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    Conspiracy

    I liked the concept for this episode but they just didn't take it far enough. The lead up was great. We had mysterious messages, clandestine meetings, a starship being blown to hell, and indications that something dark was creeping over the Federation.

    But when we finally arrived on Earth the whole conspiracy boiled down to a handful of guys being controlled by bugs.

    If their entire operation could be destroyed just by killing the Mama Bug, why would they risk everything by luring Picard to Earth? And was that the whole lot of them?

    For how smart and insidious the aliens were built up to be, their scheme sure fell apart quickly. The main problem with the episode is that this was all resolved way too fast and too easily. Of course, there was the implication at the end that this was only the beginning, but we know how that turns out...

    Earth didn't even really seem like Earth. Where the hell was everyone else while all this was happening? What about Spacedock? Surely they would have hailed the Enterprise when it arrived in orbit?

    Shouldn't there be like thousands of people stationed at Starfleet HQ? Or at Starfleet Academy? Picard was able to gun down two admirals in broad daylight. You'd think someone else in the area would notice. Even if it was just some lowly security officers or janitors or something. Earth should have been bustling with life and we should have seen all sorts of ships in orbit.

    Despite these gripes, I still liked the episode. It did a good job of building the suspense and it all was pretty ominous, at least until the conspirators were actually revealed.

    Picard was quite effective in this episode and did not hesitate to jump right into the action and do what needed to be done. Good episode, but some glaring flaws keep it from being a great one.

    Rating: ***




    The Neutral Zone

    And the rocky first season ends with both a whimper and a bang. I'm referring to the two completely unrelated plots in this episode.

    The return of the Romulans to Star Trek was very welcome. They are a truly worth adversary, unlike the Ferengi. This part of the episode was reminiscent in many ways to Balance Of Terror. The Enterprise probes the mysterious incidents along the Neutral Zone and finally confronts a Romulan Warship after decades of isolation.

    Marc Alaimo was an effective Romulan commander. Of course, he would go on to play another great Trek villain, Gul Dukat. And the design of the new Romulan Warbird is pretty damn sweet.

    But I must point out a huge continuity fuck-up. They repeatedly state in this episode that they have not had any dealings with the Romulans in decades. This completely ignores the fact that the Enterprise already visited the Neutral Zone and confronted Romulans earlier in the season! Of course this happened off-screen in the entirely forgettable Angel One... but its still a rare instance of TNG pulling a Voyager and forgetting what happened in a previous episode.

    Anyway, the Romulan stuff was all good. Unfortunately the other plot, with the 20th century humans, was just incredibly annoying.

    Ah look! More stupid, backwards 20th century humans. This one is an emotional basketcase. And this was one is a dumbass hick with a drinking problem. And this one is a greedy money obsessed accountant. Thank god we moved beyond that horrible period in human history. :rolleyes:

    And was anyone even THINKING when they decided to unfreeze these folks? Does anyone not remember what happened the last time a starship Enterprise stumbled on an ancient Earth vessel and decided to thaw out its cryogenically encased passengers? It didn't work out so well.

    Really this whole plot just felt like filler. They must not have had enough story material on the Romulan side to take up the whole hour.

    But this was still a decent season finale. The show has definitely come a long way in these first, akward 26 episodes...

    Rating: ***
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2009
  30. Tex

    Tex Forge or die. Administrator Formerly Important

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    In Angel One did they actually say the encountered the Romulans or did they just head to the Neutral Zone and never actually speak with them?
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