Still think we shouldn't accept refugees?

http://m.bild.de/news/inland/libano...t-abgeschoben-werden-27964012.bildMobile.html

An interesting, if a bit dated, article about how even the most violent and criminal offenders never actually get deported from Germany. It goes on to say that out of 35,000 Lebenese in the country 30,000 of them (well, over 80%) are on welfare and 12% of them are illegal aliens. Those figures come from the German Interior Department.

What do you want to bet we can go down the list of middle east countries and find almost the same result? At least when it comes to Germany just about all of these buggers are on welfare and virtually none of them work a steady job. This is who you want to flood Europe with? The Hungarian government is right, if you open the door there will be 30 million making their mad dash for welfare in just a year or two.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-neighbour-begs-migrants-stop-arriving.html

Meanwhile migrant violence intensifies. Roving gangs of Afghans and Arabs are attacking each other on the streets in Croatia. Greece recently had to call in the Army to the Island of Lesbos due to extreme violence by migrants as well as a rash of local women being raped and violent home invasions by illegal alien animals. Yes, if you act like an animal I will call you one even if it hurts someone's feelings.

No wonder the locals are terrified of these violent and demanding people. Don't dare speak out against them though because the apologists are always ready to call you a racist if you mention reality. This is not a good thing and these are not people who should be let in. They turn violent at the drop of a hat.

Islam forbids homosexuality, so why are Muslims flocking to an island of Lesbians?

On the bright side, it seems Afghanistanis have realized what a toxic hole they live in and are now desperate to leave.

You failed to defend any of your points and then declared victory; no one is buying that, sunshine. And I didn't call you a racist because of your 'different opinions' but because you keep saying racist things. I see that you have abandoned your claim about 80% of Muslims being on 'welfare' in the EU, so that's some progress at least.

No comment on. (Serious question, are you educationally subnormal, because you appear to be only semi-literate; sorry if you are by the way). Anyway, this is probably the weakest response I've ever seen on an internet forum. You failed to address a single thing he said and just quibbled over 1% on some numbers which don't support your 'point' in any way. Honestly, you should have just kept quiet rather than embarrassing yourself like that.

So your problem with them, the reason you call them feral animals and savages and all the rest, is that they don't follow immigration laws? I'm just going to call bullshit on that one.

Following the proper procedures is pretty much impossible for the vast majority of these people, which even you must surely know. As for EU law, which you keep invoking - by the way, could you tell me which EU law makes reference to 'illegal alien criminals' - it seems that EU countries routinely grant asylum to refugees who travel through other EU countries; they have always done so, for your information. So the question becomes a) are EU countries breaking EU law, or; b) is Dinner talking out of his arse? Answers on a postcard to P.O. box Dinner wouldn't know EU law if it bent him over and spanked him while shouting 'I'm EU law, EU motherfucking law, who's your daddy, EU law is your daddy, say my name, bitch'.

What you are trying, and failing, to refer to is of course the 1951 UN Refugee Convention, which states that refugees must seek asylum in the first safe country they reach.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-dead-after-Berlin-attack-on-policewoman.html

I am sure Europe can look forward to alot more attacks like that. A known Islamic Extremist who had previously spent six years in prison for attempting to assassinate the Prime Minister of Iraq was shot and killed last Thursday after he attempted to murder a German police woman. The would be terrorist stabbed the German officer and then was shot in the head by her partner.

Notice how even after being convicted of attempted murder this terrorist had not been deported? 11 years later he was still in the country, still not a citizen, and what do you want to bet still on welfare.

Once again, 80% of muslims in EU on welfare. I am sorry facts upset you but they are still facts.

@Inútil

All of the links to sources have been posted in this thread and are there for you to look at if you wish. Please stop lying and pretend they have not been posted.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34305086

Austria is back to getting 10,000 of these would be welfare moochers a day hardly any of them actually refugees and all of them illegal aliens who refuse to follow the law. They will be lucky if Syrians make up 1 out of 5.

That's not a 'fact', that's a youtube video with a guy making some claims that you accept without question because they support your prejudices. As I said before, when you have some actual evidence to support your claims, feel free to present it.

The researcher who did the study was listed. BTW he is muslim. Why would he lie in your opinion?

Maybe we are making progress after all as you have at least stopped lying and claiming I have not linked to sources and now we are just doing the usual song and dance where you will now claim sources listed (like the German Interior Ministry) are not creditable. Even the workplace participation data you linked to showed only 29% had any sort of paid work over the course of a year (for at least one of the countries listed) and said it was mostly low paid and temperary in nature. Hell, we both now most of those people will be using social benefits.

But, by all means, keep raging against reality because you do not like it. These facts have been around for decades and the reality is low skilled, uneducated people aren't going to find jobs in Germany and most of them are just going to sign up for benefits and mooch.

Oh, and before you try to claim they are interested in learning skills maybe you could comment on the almost 70% high school drop out rate for muslims in Germany? They have no interest in learning any more than they have interest in working.

So, again, why let them in if they are just going to be a parasitic burden on taxpayers while they refuse to learn the language or intigrate? If Germany needs workers there are tons of Eastern Europeans who actually will work, won't commit crimes or terrorist acts at sky high rates, and who will quickly become German.

That case received a lot of media attention two weeks ago but for some reason the illegal alien defenders never want to discuss it.

It was witnessed by a well known Polish travel writer and travel blogger who has had several travel books published in Poland. It took place at the beginning of the month at the Italian Austrian border.

And then you wonder why people call them animals? If they don't want to be compared with animals then maybe they should stop acting like animals. Throwing feces, beating women and carjacking, stealing all of the luggage off of a bus, etc...

Danish tv news asks the welfare migrants why they want to go to Sweden. They are not shy in telling people. Sweden pays more welfare and allows them to bring over their entire extended families so they can also claim welfare.



Welfare is a magnet. It is an absolute magnet. Danish people should be falling on their knees and thanking the government for turning off the welfare magnet to 3rd world welfare migrants.

It sounds like everybody over there is going to have to start speaking English or Arabic.

And why are they all walking? Couldn't they steal some bicycles?

A Daily Mail article? Are you looking for otters to hire for your space sub?

Wait... it seems you're comparing "Dinner" with "Tachyon Shield" a/k/a "The All Seeing Eye" from TrekBBS? Ya mean that literally or figuratively?

Is that pointed at me?

I'm comparing him to Midnight Funeral.

No comment on substance? No comment about welfare migrants saying they are breaking the law to get the most welfare?

How... Unsurprising.

Anyone so threatened (or merely so dissatisfied) in their own country, that they'd opt to immigrate elsewhere, would look for the best deal/living conditions that they could get. That "anyone" includes you, and we all know it, so shut the fuck up about it.

Except they are willingly violating the law for personal financial gain. Second even if I didn't have the legal right to work in either the US or EU, which I do, any country would be lucky to have an educated person like me who makes six figures, who is not violent, who is not a rapist, who does not throw feces, and who will not break the law, who pays far more taxes than I consume, and ho will not bring in a dozen welfare migrants. That is why I am welcome in just about any country I go to and they are not.

The law needs to be enforced and the welfare migrants can't be allowed to asylum shop for the best welfare offer just like they cannot be allowed to turn violent every time their demands aren't met. Either we are nations of laws or we are not just like any nation which cannot defend its borders is no nation at all.

But that's why we don't let everyone on the planet just pack a bag and come on over. Say you've got a workforce participation rate of 60 percent and a population of 100 million, so you have 60 million workers supporting themselves and 40 million children, retirees, and welfare cases, or 3 workers supporting 2 non-workers. Then 20 million barely literate people show up to claim the same benefits as the 40 million natives who weren't in the workforce. So benefits are going to drop by at least a third because they're spread out to cover 60 million non-workers instead of 40 million.

But wait, the retirees already owned homes, and children are already living in their parents homes. So you also have to kick in to build houses for the 20 million people who showed up - who are homeless people. So now you need to cut your welfare benefits in half, or more, so you can divert money to building massive slums. The immigrants could have built their own houses and grown their own food, but that's not why they're showing up. They're showing up to get a free house, free food, and free Internet. And eventually they'll vote and swing elections (as has happened in France), and what they'll vote for is more free houses, free food, and free Internet, along with sharia law. At some point the system breaks, and the Europeans are staring at that as an immediate possibility.

They're dangling money out there and beating the drums so everyone knows about the freebies, not realizing that if you similarly leave massive amounts of food scraps on the streets of your city, it will quickly fill up with rats, possums, raccoons, coyotes, and bears.

Horseshit. Anyone so threatened (or merely so dissatisfied) in their own country, that they'd opt to immigrate elsewhere, would look for the best deal/living conditions that they could get. Period. That "anyone" still includes you, and we all know it, so stop clinging to the fantasy that others doing exactly what you'd do in the same situation, are somehow evil.

You are assuming everyone has the same skills, desirabily (from their new home's perspective), and adaptability. That is just not true. The illegal alien criminals don't have the legal right to pick where they go to (even assuming they are actual refugees which none of them are as they violated the refugee laws). They are nothing but violent criminals who should be shut down with violent force if necissary and that was necissary long ago.

If you let every criminal in you will end up with the same shitty conditions they left and each government is supposed to look after their own citizens before they let in violent criminals who break the law. FACT!

But that's the point. Wildlife isn't evil, in fact it's quite sweet, but you still don't want rats, raccoons, coyotes and bears taking over your neighborhood just because somebody decided that feeding all the local wildlife made them feel one with nature. A few animals in your yard is cool. A takeover is a problem, and the "animals" that Dinner is going off on are the most dangerous of all, fellow homo sapiens whose native behavior is so bad that it creates massive "no-go" zones where other humans can't venture lest they star in a brutal torture and execution video

Most of the migrants are fine people who will make upstanding citizens if they escape their home culture. But that is quite difficult because Euro multiculturalism demands that they remain embedded in it, including its worst aspects. Indeed, European policies keep classifying people by race, ethnicity, and national origin and dole out power and money based on those groupings, so that engineers or doctors from throughout the Middle East and Africa have to focus on being aggrieved Muslims instead of doctors or engineers. Instead of respecting whatever classes they had (professionals of various stripes, farmers, merchants, jihadists), the European response is to treat them all as a monolithic block based on race. So you end up with the equivalent of Jesse Jackson's up to your armpit, even among people who were trying to flee all the racial BS of their home country.

That approach doesn't work and can never work. A hundred years from now Europeans still won't have integrated 90 percent of the migrants because they'll be focused on treating them as some "other" and bending over backwards to help them with special programs that force all of them to stick together out of self-interest.

Disregarding your lack of humanity for a sec, what do you mean, 'just' 20%? Is it the highest percentage of any nationality seeking asylum. It's one in 5 - that's a lot. As for your statement that

You not only fail to provide any evidence of that, what's more, you show you have no understanding of the laws regarding asylum. Not that I am an expert, but at least I know that asylum laws use a concept called Safe Country of Origin - and for a country to be safe, it has to be:

Or for a more accurate legal text, see this source
So 'war' is not the only criterium. If people are persecuted, under threat of violence, or even if there is armed conflict in a part of the country, EU countries can decide people have the right to seek asylum. And I say can because, contrary to what you seem to think, the application of the SCO-criterium even differs for each EU countries, they all have different SCO-lists. The EU is working on an EU-wide list, but that is not here yet, afaik. Even if they make it, though - there is the question of whether or not it is even legal to use such a list. A Canadian court recently ruled that the Canadian SCO list is unconstitutional:

Source

So you stress EU laws should be adhered to, without knowing them. I don't know where you live (UK?) but I hope your laws are a bit different than ours - because according to our laws, each citizen is required by law to know the law. You don't, so according to your rigid standards, you should be in jail. Funny, that. But I digress.

Being required to follow the law, of course, applies to refugees as well as EU countries. Yet, you yourself state:

So.. should all the refugees be returned to the first European countries they entered? While those countries put them on a train and ship them right back, thus breaking the law?
You say yes, but you are wrong. Germany actually suspended the Dublin Regulations on August 24th, declaring that 'all Syrian asylum-seekers [are] welcome to remain in Germany – no matter which EU country they had first entered.' Source
So it actually was legal for them to head to Germany right away and they were not obliged by law to apply for asylum in their home countries. To quote you, yet again: "You know it, I know, and the only difference is you are trying to pretend the law doesn't matter. For you your feelings seem to be all that matters." You're a bigot and you'll twist any facts you can get your hands on to give the impression you're actually making sense. Luckily, it is obvious to most, if not all of us here, that you are not.

Finally, on a different note: there is a crisis going on here, as I said. But it is not one of the EU being flooded by something we cannot process. We can, just like Merkel said, and we will, because we must. And actually, we've done it before. Even though the current number of asylum seekers is higher than ever before, the main reason we have a problem now, is because we were not prepared. But we've had high numbers of refugees before: in 1992 there were 672 thousand in the EU-15 and integrating them was not a problem at all. Now, there are 28 European countries, almost double, and suddenly we can't find places for them to sleep? Why? Because the number of asylum seekers drastically dropped after 2001, to just below 200 thousand by 2006, and being the frugal beasts we are, we also drastically cut back on the infrastructure to deal with more refugees. (and again: source)
Here in the Netherlands, we are now placing refugees in sports halls and are even building a shelter for 3000 refugees. That sounds like a lot, but the total number of refugees up till now is not even 25.000, while we had actual houses for 80.000 refugees in the first years of the century. We're having trouble helping them now, because we choose to forget about them for the past couple of years. Well, wake up, Europe, and grow up - the world doesn't go away when you shut your eyes.

@Dinner isn't entirely wrong - although he'd be best off not couching it in terms that would leave Josef Goebbels clapping and laughing like a 5 year old high on candy.

There are a lot of migrants moving for purely economical reasons, and in Germany's case they're fine with that. They'll take the temporary hit in benefit costs in exchange for them having kids who will work, mainly as their own population doesn't seem inclined that way. Personally I blame scheisseporn

Now this does assume those kids will work, but I suspect they will, one thing this current exodus will do is pretty much force Europe to stop tolerating ghettos, which both sides are to blame for. We've never been that great at peaceful integration. Invasions? Yeah, we've millennia of experience in rocking that shit, but actual peaceful migrations and integration? We start worrying about offending people. Even when they start taking the piss and sections cause problems.

When people from different/more oppressive cultures are living in more open and secular ones, well of course you're going to have problems with a sizeable minority. Immigrants will suddenly find themselves having to relearn boundaries, the next couple of generations handling the fallout as they find themselves caught between the parents/grandparents culture and the host one. I mean it's taken the UK decades to actually deal with forced marriage and female genital mutilation, and we're still shit scared about challenging some of the more patriarchal practices and attitudes.

Yes, there are serious issues with how a number of immigrant/minority males treat women.

You tackle these with a mix of education (you can do X, you can't do Y. And no rape isn't fine. Not even if she is pissed and white), legal (poly laws would help for starters*) and social (we whine about TV being an influence? Fucking use it then) changes.

What you don't do is take one of the extremes of demonising the entirety or tolerating the minority for fear of offending the totality.

As with work, it's always going to be difficult to find work initially, not least because host countries usually provide a raft of barriers while claims are being processed, and even then you've language and social barriers. In the UK we do have issues with certain minorities being on benefits whilst working for family members, usually at a few pounds an hour (nowhere near the minimum wage), and blind eyes being taken to avoid offence. That's doesn't help with perceptions or peoples futures.

It's a horribly complex situation, and Europe has a rich history of not being very good about it. Hopefully we'll have to change now, otherwise Dinner's rather dystopic view may well happen, but I suspect the EU's politicians will do something otherwise the free movement of people, one of the EU's core tenets, will fail.

*I know a couple of Muslim guys who have a legal wife, and several religious ones. Their other wives are cheerfully hoovering up benefits as 'single' parents. A change in law would sort that shit out pronto.

As the graphs have repeatedly shown the single largest group migrating are Kosovars whow male up a qureter of all mogrants. The EU and Germany both classify the various Balkan countries as safe.

As for safe countries of origin most of them (other than the folks from the Balkan who are just trying to piggy back on the crisis) have crossed through Turkey, Greece, Macadonia, Serbia, Croatia, Hungary, Austria, and only then into Germany. So, yes, they definitely have had good and viable options if safety was their concern.

Of course, safety is not their concern. Who offers the most welfare is their primary concern as well who will let them bring over all of their extended family to also sign up for welfare. Germany is going to find their yearly 800,000 becomes 4 million once all the hangers on get brought over. Each year, every year, with an unlimited supply of people from the 3rd world who just want money for nothing.

BTW I love your "lack of humanity" line. If you don't give violent criminals everything they want then you LACK HUMANITY!

Tell me another whooper, buckwheat.

Edit: Oh, and your horse shit about exceptional circumstances and the regular rules being waved has been over for about a week now. Or have you missed Merkel's back tracking after she noticed the tsunami her ill advised words caused? Did you miss how she has suspend free movement and put border controls back up on the southern border?

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0RJ0GS20150919

Despite being given everything the migrants still complain Germany "humiliates" them and is mean to them. Declaring Germany to be no better than the Asad regime. These people will never be satisfied and in a short while they will become disaffected. That is when they will start turning to radical Islamism if they follow the usual pattern.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-34270077

The BBC finally breaks their silence about the massive fraud among "refugee" claims. The latest numbers show 40% of migrants are from the Balkan all of which are countries the EU has classified as safe. There is an official German government report on where the migrants come from but there is a caviot that a large percentage of the 20% claiming to be Syrian are lying and who have never been to Syria.