"The 1980's are calling to ask for their foreign policy back."

Discussion in 'The Red Room' started by Steal Your Face, Jan 8, 2022.

  1. Jan Jansen

    Jan Jansen Ukraine Feline Defense Force

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    Western Europe is still debating whether it should seriously engage with the Russians. After all, it's all pretty risky and could damage the economy. After three years of Russian aggression, it's still difficult to assess the situation accurately. And maybe Putin isn't such a bad guy after all, who knows.

    Our decision-makers are a bad joke. At least you Americans are supplying a few weapons, which are nowhere near enough, but better than nothing. Meanwhile, the Europeans sleep the sleep of the just and cover their ears in the hope that things will somehow come to an end. Of course, it wouldn't be so good if Russia ends up crushing Ukraine and twenty million Ukrainians make their way to Central Europe, but our geniuses in power don't think that far ahead.
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  2. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    Western European countries are supplying lots of weapons, (collectively the dollar value is more than the US to date) and have taken significant economic pain in order to support Ukraine.

    You can argue that they should do more but this post is either extremely dishonest or extremely ignorant.
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  3. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Europe is doing a lot, and, Scholz aside, leaders are trying to get the equipment to Ukraine.

    The US is playing a bloody stupid game, one that is going to damage US interests around the world.
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  4. Jan Jansen

    Jan Jansen Ukraine Feline Defense Force

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    "A lot" doesn't seem to be enough, because Russia is advancing.

    I don't want to be too negative about the USA. The Biden administration is simply doing what it can domestically, against the resistance of Putin fans among the Republicans. It is thanks to the Americans that Ukraine was not overrun, not the Europeans. The Europeans are a military dwarf and will remain so for a long time because we wanted it that way. This is not to diminish the efforts of the Europeans to help Ukraine, but instead they failed to take up Russia's challenge after the invasion. They still haven't. Russia's industry is in full war mode. Europe is still pretending that normality prevails, even though Russia has thrown down the gauntlet. They are attacking Europe every day, with political interference in political parties and with cyber warfare.
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  5. Jan Jansen

    Jan Jansen Ukraine Feline Defense Force

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    Not enough, not enough by a factor of at least five. The Russians still want to annex the whole of Ukraine. Only sheer firepower has prevented them from doing so so far, not fine words. And a lot of blood from Ukrainian soldiers. And most of this firepower comes from the USA, which you hate so much, not from Europe. Time for a reality check, hamas boi.
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  6. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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    Were advancing. Past tense. They've hit resistance hard, and its more fluent now with Ukraine having recaptured territory.

    And part of that is because Russia can build up forces across the border, safe from it raining cluster munitions like the monsoon season from hell, and then cross over before Ukraine can use much of its more effective weaponry.

    AFAIK, only the UK has stated, so far, that it is okay for donated weapons to be used on Russian soil.

    Thing is, they're not, there are mechanisms that Biden could use, but has made a conscious choice not to, that would get weapons to Ukraine without risking being blocked by the MAGAtards.

    There's an effort to stop escalation, which is entirely one-sided, otherwise third-nation weapons from the likes of North Korea and Iran would never leave Russian borders, and which is backfiring heavily as deniable hybrid warfare is creeping into Western society, as they recognise there is no will to stand up to them.

    So far it's moderately minimal, sticking to using crime gangs for assassinations, although the French are getting a taste of Azerbaijani and Russian tactics in New Caledonia.

    It's not going to stay minimal though.

    As for Europe, it's been arrogance. We view the world through Eurocentric glasses, and much of the post-WW2 settlement was based around our view of laws, how war should be prosecuted, etc. It was pith helmets all round.

    A sense of post-enlightenment superiority has pervaded for centuries, and the last 80 years has been about underlining that, so there has been a sense of security and permanence, one that is now being challenged, and we'll hopefully deal with.
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  7. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  8. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  9. Thoughts and Prayers

    Thoughts and Prayers Fresh Meat

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    "Biden is a tyrant, see?" @Steal Your Face said, surreptitiously pocketing his weekly check from Putin.
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  10. Ebeneezer Goode

    Ebeneezer Goode Gobshite

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  11. Jan Jansen

    Jan Jansen Ukraine Feline Defense Force

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    @Ebeneezer Goode

    Good post. You're far less emotional and angry that I could ever be. I'm more the spontaneous, choleric type.

    Perhaps the West must once again resort to long-forgotten, archaic, primitive means against an enemy that doesn't play by the rules. Perhaps the post-heroic age has not yet been ushered in after all. Which is, of course, a kind of breach of civilisation and a step backwards, sad but true.

    It is a slow, painful relearning after 80 years of peace, which was rather an anomaly in history. Certain people haven't heard the shot yet, but who can blame them.

    It was simply very comfortable to live in a world in which you supposedly had the moral high ground on your side AND at the same time had the upper hand militarily. These certainties have now all started to slip, to put it mildly.
    Last edited: May 31, 2024
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  12. shootER

    shootER Insubordinate...and churlish Administrator

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  13. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

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    Please tell me this is sarcasm as the “moral high ground” was lost almost immediately after WWII.
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  14. Tererune

    Tererune Troll princess and Magical Girl

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    Please tell me someone enabling @Uncle Albert is not wading into any argument involving a moral high ground.
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  15. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  16. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  17. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  18. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  19. Bickendan

    Bickendan Custom Title Administrator Faceless Mook Writer

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  20. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  21. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  22. RickDeckard

    RickDeckard Socialist

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    More arrest warrants for more Russian leaders from the ICC. This time for launching missile attacks on civilian targets.

    Link.

    :)
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  23. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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  24. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

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  25. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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    Given the state of their population, this could be interesting.
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  26. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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  27. Crosis36

    Crosis36 Author

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    From a hypercynical point of view, this is the best thing the USA could hope for, as NK now sends troops off to a meat grinder.
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  28. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

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    Meanwhile Biden is considering allowing American "contractors" to operate in Ukraine. Those poor North Koreans are so fucked.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/biden-administration-american-military-contractors-ukraine/index.html
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  29. Thoughts and Prayers

    Thoughts and Prayers Fresh Meat

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    Poland seeking help with border guards...from Germany. Doesn't feel right.
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  30. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

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