The Red State Murder Problem - Why are murder rates 40% higher in Trump states?

They aren't? They seem to me to be dismissing it out of hand.

He's right about the 2nd statement as well. The South has a disproportionate share of black people in the US.

It's just a self-own at the end of the day. Why did blacks settle in the South? For the first 40 years they were forced to by racist laws designed to keep them tied to the share cropping system. They literaly would be arrested for vagrancy if they tried to leave.

So the reasons why the South are more impacted by violence is of course a large number of things, but definnitely included in that list is damaging racist policies that created a permanent underclass that initially wasn't allowed to leave and then lacked the wealth to, and that is reinforced by a gun culture that ensures the means of violence are widespread and easily available.


Even more ironic because the whites in the South who now feel the need to cling to their guns are largely afraid of minority communities their wealthy elites forced to be among them for their material benefit.

Which of course they then doubled down to focus on drug activity that allows them to imprison these communities and force slave labor out of them, which also reduces their political presence and removes them from white communities.

Evil incorporated.

Fuck off racist.

Christ, if you can't even separate correlation and causation how the fuck did you get that history degree?

No, we're dismissing HIM out of hand because of his bad faith performance in the past with this shit.
You don't argue the fine points of the holocaust body count with a fucking skinhead.
You don't argue geography with flat Earth nuts.

Hitler was a non-smoking vegetarian, doesn't mean you start countenancing the "Hitler had some good ideas" rabbit hole.

How dare you sir. HOW DARE YOU.

Vegetarianism is not a good idea.

Is it a fact, however? Most crimes go unsolved and given that the people most likely to be wrongly convicted aren't white and that a number of cops are white supremacists, I don't know as we can trust the numbers. Additionally, whites are more often able to plea down to a lesser charge than people of color. So, the white guy gets to plead guilty to manslaughter, while a person of color doesn't.

And let's face it, the only reason the cops who murdered George Floyd were charged, let alone convicted, was that the video was posted on social media. There's no telling how many people (regardless of color) are murdered by police and we don't know about it because nobody was there to post it to FB.

I'd say it all was, regardless of what his intent might have been in bringing it up. Whites kill more whites than black people do, but you don't hear people talking about white-on-white crime, or Asian-on-Asian crime, etc.

First of all, fuck off you racist. The mods really need to warn you for this post because it is textbook race baiting.

Second of all, guess why they are largely concentrated in the South?

I like how people are upset about facts. Specifically they are upset over FBI statistics. I feel like the only people who don’t trust the FBI are Trump supporters and Nazis. See how that feels? Probably not because irony escapes these people. Anyway, you all are free to dispute the facts, dishonest as you may be.

It feels like absolutely nothing, because you have no credibility.

Says the guy who makes shit up on the regular. Get the fuck out of here.

Make me, tough guy.

We're not upset, we're just sharing the facts: you're a racist piece of shit.

Yep. Like Uncle Albert bleating ‘the cities’ (aka ‘the blacks’) BJ just saying it out loud just doesn’t cut it. Alaska, Oklahoma, New Mexico and Indiana have negligible Black populations but are all in the second highest tier when it comes to murders.

It also ignores that fact that Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana have consistently had some of the highest murder rates going back even before the Civil War.

Generally speaking violent crime has a negative correlation with trust in social and civic institutions.

Places with high trust in social and civic institutions are considered Rule of Law Societies and generally have low violent crime.

Places with low trust in social and civic institutions are called Honor Societies and generally have high violent crime rates.

Nope, not at all.

Yes the stats show higher rates of crime among African Americans.

Non-racists look at the fact that there are higher rates of poverty and less inter-generational wealth and stability among African Americans, with those factors among others being strongly correlated with higher crime rates.

Racists argue that they commit more crime because they're black.

Guess which one your statement aligns with.

My statement said nothing of the sort. I said nothing about cause or correlation. I said nothing as to the who, what, when,where or how. I intentionally did this and it produced the exact result I predicted it would. You called me a racist because I pointed out a fact you didn't like. Anc wanted to talk about facts and not feelings so I brought up a fact. Now you're bringing feelings into the facts.

You better not get him mad or he will ignore you and quit for a week again. Think about the consequences.

This wasn't your post?

You literally wrote that there are more murders in the south because there are more black people there.

Yep. Stone cold.

The clearance rate for murder and non-negligient manslaughter is the highest of any crime, varying between 50-65% in any given year. And the offender vs victim status has been the same since it was tracked. Almost all homicide in the US is conducted by the same race as the victim. Anywhere from 85-95%, year after year after year. And we can easily see why - even if there isn't dejure segregation, there's de facto segregation, due to economic matters as with tribalism and racism. Of course, a large amount of the economic matters have been shown to correlate to those factors and the inability for african-americans to generate generational wealth that's required to get out of areas with high murder rates.

The FBI Uniform Justice Reports this data comes from is incomplete, as not all police organizations contribute to it, though the vast majority do. But it does include non-negligent manslaughter in the same category as homicides. So that factor is already accounted for.

We just say homicide or murder because non-negligent manslaughter is a mouthful to say or annoying to type. But the data accounts for it.

While I certainly agree that's a non-negligient number it would take a massive, completely unrealistic amount of police assassinations to account for the discrepancy. To believe this is true doesn't border on conspiracy theory, it blows right past it into Tucker Carlson just asking questions territory or anti-vaxxers talking about the jab.

If the number of murders (and yes, non-negligient blah blah blah) was proportionate to their demographics, there'd be between 3500-4000 fewer in the black community each year. That's out of 10,000 total. The per capita homicide rate among blacks is 8 times higher than whites.

Yes, that number can be and likely is off by some degree, but there's nothing indicating it's so heavily skewed as you claim it to be where it's near parity. Not even close.

No, I don't believe there are roving police bands murdering huge swathes of people. Even if you believe that the police would be willing to do this and cover it up, to blame it on other members of the black community would require a massive conspiracy including DAs, local governments, civilian police oversight (where it exists), judges, journalists to fabricate 'eye witness' sightings, and hell even the media.

There's almost no Asian homicides period, and Asians are 1/8th as likely to be convicted of any crime as a white person is.

But even within that context, on a per capita basis it is absolutely true that black on black homicide is far more damaging to those communities. Again, the per capita murder rate is not even close.

Even with all the white serial killers and mass shooters.

Yes I did. Those are two facts that can’t be denied. And?

Everyone on the board-so what might be driving those facts?

You-well, they're black...

Dumbass.

I haven't offered my opinion on what I think is driving those facts, you (as in the royal you) keep making assumptions and jumping to conclusions about what I think is driving those facts.

Let's cut through the bullshit.
Do you agree that blacks commit the most murder in the USA? Yes or no?
Do you agree that most black people are concentrated in the south? Yes or no?

Look, why don't you and racism just kiss, and get it over with?
Racism loves you, you love racism, everyone can see it, it's no big secret.

yeah, umm...

that, dear boy, is an opinion.

Does that opinion tell you why blacks commit more murders? Does it tell you why I think it is that blacks commit more murders? The answer to both is no. Is it suddenly racist to state facts?

yes or no aren't particularly relevant.
numerically, no. proportionately, yes.

but then you have to weigh in on who gets charged in fatalities more frequently, who they killed, how and what are the circumstances. As you guys are so fond of asking, were they killed by guns?

and that's not even addressing systemic issues, you're barely investigating shit.
you may as well ask why there are more injuries in MMA than there are in chess.

we've been through the historic inequities and intergenerational trauma aspect.

I don't care if you acknowledge their reality. They're acknowledged truths.

do we work to create opportunity (even if it costs UA and you another $12 on your federal returns) or maintain the cycle of marginalization by throwing drugs and guns at it? I mean, granted. THe latter does keep firearm and security industries booming... justifies militarized police, too.

The claim is that it's racist to say that blacks commit more murder. Now you want to add all of these other factors into the equation.

Actually, numerically yes as well, and more so over the last 5 years. In 2020, there were 7868 known black homicide offenders vs 4893 known white homicide offenders. It wasn't too long ago that the raw numbers were similar, within 5%, even when the proportions remained massively dissimiliar.
https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/pages/explorer/crime/shr

So why? More racist cops? I suppose that's possible, though again I'd have to see some actual valid data to consider that anything but a conspiracy theory. There have been lots of racist cops in the system for a long time.

I'd say it's much more likely to be influenced by economics - blacks were disproportionately impacted by the pandemic, both in initial mortality and illness, more impact due to fewer having insurance, and while job losses spiked at nearly the same rate of loss, black unemployment was already higher and black employment recovered more slowly.

Hopefully these numbers will recover as black communities recover from unemployment and health issues.