The Rise of Atheism in America

http://news.yahoo.com/rise-atheism-america-110700315.html

There's way more than 4%. But anyway, 19% "nones" may be more accurate. There is a stigma about coming out in certain circles - apparently in politics it's a fatal mistake.

Well, that's been common knowledge for a while. I doubt an atheist could get voted into office in California or Massachusetts, let lone anywhere else.

Pete Stark is an atheist, he's a representative for California's 13th congressional district.

One study last year asked participants whether a fictional hit-and-run driver was more likely to be an atheist or a rapist.

Right, because a rapist wants to give Johnny Law more reasons to look for him.

Yeah, it's just one of those kinds of questions used as scientific 'evidence' by sociologists and psychologists for their research, without allowing for the possibility that the interviewee will probably think, "What?! What does it even matter whether the shooter might be an atheist or rapist? There's no way to know!" but be limited to the two possible answers. Methodology like that keeps the fields 'soft', which is a shame because they do have a lot of potential for being serious sciences and teaching us a lot about how we think and act. But the approach and thought process have to change.

Good.

I don't believe in the OP.

I think the problem with atheism is that a small but very vocal group is so fucking obnoxious towards non-atheists that it pisses every non-atheist off. On top of that the small very vocal group is almost entirely leftist. So when you mix those two together you're going to get someone who is hated.

Atheists need to chill and argue without the emotion (especially hate and anger). Be almost like "Vulcans" in making their arguments about atheism. Insulting people for not being atheist is not going to bring them to your side. If anything it's going to make them circle the wagons even harder.

I think this group you are talking about (Hi, Diacanu!) are not atheists as much as they are antitheists. There is a significant difference. If they were true atheists, religious expression would not bother them, nor would they oppose it. They would just simply choose not to believe rather than resort to anti-religious activism.

The Marine Corpse (Hi Obama!) is currently embroiled in a controversy over 2 memorial crosses at Camp Pendleton. There is absolutely nothing in the US Constitution that says those crosses or a Nativity scene can't be displayed. The 1st Amendment says that Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. It does not say that expressions of religion cannot be made.

Is the concept of agnosticism really all that difficult to understand? Like how, for one, it's not a fucking faith, and for another we don't belong to the atheists either.

Talk about the pot and the kettle.

In any case, I find shit like this mildly entertaining because of how certain folk freak out at the thought of people not being religious. Honestly the shit they spew is laughable and it congers up the image of a bunch of mouth breathers.

1) You're conflating atheists with anti-theists.

2) Being Vulcan-like won't make a difference, you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into, believe me, I've tried.

I agree.

Along those same lines, being "Vulcan-like" might make it worse, as people who are biased against atheists are going to say something about how atheists are so immoral they don't even have human emotions.

How's about people mind their own fucking business and take care of their own before fixing other people?

Is that too much to ask?

/UA

/thread

There isn't a difference to someone who is religious. You need to understand that.

As long as the anti-theists have the biggest voice out of all the atheists you will find it hard to bring people to your side.

I should have known better.

I'm not saying you should stand like Mr.Spock and show no fucking emotions. Be ALMOST like a Vulcan is not the same as BE EXACTLY LIKE a Vulcan.

It just means instead of getting in peoples face you present your side without the hysterics. Without the insults. Without the stupidity of talking down to the other person like they are inferior for believing in God.

And yes you can reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Just because you may have run into someone that you weren't able to change their mind doesn't mean it can't happen. Clearly it does happen since people switch from religion (usually something they didn't reason themselves into) to atheism.

Yes. Far too much to ask.

Not really relevant. Reasoning with someone is very different from them reasoning with themselves, namely that people don't get as defensive when they challenge their own beliefs. One would think that after spending years on a bulletin board this would be obvious to you. Very few people respond to having their beliefs challenged with an open mind, and those who are usually are too open minded to accept something as dogmatic as organized religion.

Then feel free to be a lazy shit and not try to reason with anyone. I don't really give a fuck.

See what I mean? I can't even use reason with you to point out that you're being unreasonable about what can be accomplished with reason. Instead you get all emotional and pissy.

I think this is a point lost on many folk.

How's that? Seems to me that the numbers of athiests are growing faster than ever.

The current environment of removing crosses and the Ten Commandments is the result of a series of SCOTUS rulings that started in 1947 IIRC, based on a letter that Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury, Connecticut Baptist Association in 1802 where he essentially said that as POTUS, he could not act on their behalf because there would be no official state religion according to the 1st Amendment. The Founders did not want the same problems that England and the Colonies had with the Anglican church.

Jefferson had been part of the movement to disestablish the Anglican church in America to allow equal religious liberty under the Virginia Act for Establishing Religious Freedom in 1786, which opens with "Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free..."

SOURCE

You'll note that Jefferson references God in this letter. In fact, he referenced God four times in the Declaration of Independence. Jefferson was not an atheist, although he was not a Christian either. He was a Deist.

"Rise" of atheism, as if this was a new thing? Read up on your US history, especially 1780-1800 or after the Civil War. Anti-Christianity waxes and wanes. It all goes in cycles. Right now, we are in an anti-Christian phase. It will reverse in, say, another 50 years, then anti-Christianity will decline again.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Jefferson just hated Calvinists and John Calvin so much that everyone assumed he hated mainstream Christianity, too. Jefferson was a deist, but no atheist.

You might be able to get away with whining about anti-Christianity when we have 44 consecutive anti-Christian presidents. For the time being, though, it's like non-handicapped people whining about how hard it is to use stairs.

How is giving a demonstrated historical fact "whining"?

And as for "anti-Christian" presidents, we have started a streak, with the current one.

It's Diacanu's fault.

Oh, this I want to hear about.

FIrst, how is Obama anti-christian.

Second, even if he is, how does one constitute a "streak"?

Or is this more of the usual "war on Christians" crap from whenever y'all are reminded that your's is not the only game in town?