What the hell are you talking about? How could she have been "reasoned with" in the three and a half seconds it took her to come charging out, attack the first girl, and then lunge at the second? What is it about the video that makes it apparent to you that that could have happened?
You keep doing this "what the fuck" thing as if the possibility of anything else couldn't possibly exist. So, I don't see how further discussion helps. I think a professionally trained de-escalation expert trained to deal with teenagers could have had a different outcome. However, as long as people like you exist, people who think there's no way de-escalation and psychological understanding of teenagers won't help, then those things will never be implemented. And the human race is fucked. So, who the hell cares?
No doubt the girl who was killed was a victim of some nasty life shit, I'm sure. But you're not going to have a successful mental health intervention when someone is in crisis, fully intent on stabbing someone. Unfortunately the cop was not able/trained/whatever to take her down non-lethally. Such a waste.
How what? I've already said I don't know. Which is why I don't understand your continued push for an answer that you know I don't have. Yes, I think de-escalation and psychological training is necessary. No, I don't know what that looks like. Yes, I think the situation may have ended differently with someone trained. No, I don't know how.
But you said that it was apparent from the video that she could have been reasoned with. I'm curious about what you're talking about? What is it in the video that makes it apparent that she could have been reasoned with in the seconds it took for her to make her appearance and then attack those two people?
Ok. I've looked over the last two pages and don't see where I said "it was apparent from the video that she could have been reasoned with". Could you please point out that post?
My question is what is it about the video that makes it apparent that she could have been reasoned with at that point.
Again, I do not know. I am not trained as cop, as a de-escalator, as a psychologist, as anything who whose job would take them into that situation. My point is, that video is ... not much more than a snapshot. I acknowledged that the video appears to not have any other solution. All I'm saying is not everything is as it appears.
That part doesn't even factor in. I wanted to know what, exactly, you were talking about when you said what was bolded in red, but you've since said the opposite, "I acknowledged that the video appears to not have any other solution." which is what had me confused.
Well, you've succeeded in totally confusing me. So, on that note, I'm getting another drink and no longer participating in this part of the conversation.
Nothing wrong with having compassion when a teen is killed. But unless the kid is drugged out of their mind or has mental illness when they began stabbing, there could be many reasons not just for this girl, but kids in general: 1) kid grew up around violence be it from peers, family or others 2) no dad in the home * or an otherwise fractured family 3) kid has a difficult time interacting with others * not having a dad in the home doesn't just negatively effect males, it effects females too. Google it you don't believe me. Yes there are exceptions, but on a percentage basis kids without fathers are more likely to end up in prison or dead before they even make it to prison.
exactly - the cop had mere seconds to respond. Nothing anybody could have said would have mattered at that point. Her body (and the knife) were already in motion and on their way to the the girl up against the car with no room to retreat.
Everything else in your post is true so not going to waste time there. This last, though ... , is only a part of the issue. Single mothers can and do raise well rounded responsible children who become productive members of society. Two parent households can raise not only criminals, but serial killers. I mean, look at Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Kaczynski. Ted Bundy was raised by his grandparents - a two grandparent household. The problem is when parents do not give their child the love and attention they need. That's when children turn to crime. The theory would be that two parent households provide more time for one or each parent to spend with the child(ren). But, it isn't because 'a dad is there'.
Here's an article about a Judo organization trying to help police with their unarmed options. Apparently there was a contingent from Meridian, which is right up against the Boise city limits. The main concept over the week of classes held at the Wyoming Law Enforcement Academy centered on teaching cops how to engage suspects verbally, then employ physical judo techniques if needed, to deescalate confrontations without using deadly force. Jim Bacon, a former athlete on the U.S. judo team who now serves as a police officer in Lafayette, Colorado, says the most damning police-on-suspect encounters — many now caught on police body cameras or by onlookers holding iPhones — have this in common: "The cop resorts to higher levels of force than should've been used. If they have more skills, they might not have to rely on the gadgets on the belt," he said. [Taybren] Lee says the public would be alarmed at how little training the average police department provides to officers for street confrontations. And because so many more interactions are now caught on video, police are being scrutinized in ways previously impossible. "It's not the officers' fault that they don't have the training," said Lee, an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department who also teaches judo for the youth-based Police Athletic League, a sponsor of the training program. "Sometimes, the departments haven't spent the money for the training, and in a lot of ways, the training hasn't caught up to the realities of the technology that's out there." "We sat down and started talking," Bryant said, "and we agreed that when you look at George Floyd, and all these situations, we felt like if these officers had been trained in judo appropriately, it wouldn't have happened." While I think they're overselling Judo a bit, they're making an argument that I've been making for a long time: that if officers could be more confident in their ability to handle situations with bare hands, a lot of situations that ended up with dead people might be avoidable.
Jenee was conceding that from her viewing of the video she did not see a way that there were alternatives for the officer but she was thinking that maybe someone with expertise might be able to see alternatives.
Jesus what part of Yes there are exceptions don't you understand? Yes single mothers can raise kids well, but statistically kids from single mom homes are much more likely to end up in trouble/prison/dead etc. Look it up for yourself! It only makes sense - the single mom has to work her ass off, maybe at two jobs, to make ends meet. They don't have as much time to tend to the kids - just one factor in making things hard for kids from a single mom home. No positive male role model is another major factor. Prisons and graveyards are chock full of kids from single mom homes. Again, LOOK IT UP YOURSELF FROM MULTIPLE CRIME DATA SOURCES.
You are arguing that just having a man in the house suddenly makes everything rosy. It doesn’t. It’s not an exception. It’s a variable. Correlation does not equal causation.
It depends on what you're comparing to what. Are you saying kids from single parent households more likely to end up in trouble than not, or just more likely to end up in trouble than kids from two parent households? Because if it's the former, my sister and I came from a single parent household and we came out fine. I also know a shit ton of other people who grew up in single parent households, and they're fine. I would hazard a guess that most kids from single parent households turn out fine. I wouldn't call us exceptional.
Good and evil aren't intrinsic conditions of humankind - they are social qualifications, and thus to some degree subjective. What is evil in one community may not be in another, depending on what the community decides. Agreed, it's beyond classical civilized constructs of good and evil. But the ability to kill when necessary is very much a part of survival skills. Whether it be to hunt or to protect oneself. Or even just to eliminate potential rivals. Saying that most people have the capacity to kill has nothing to do with those statements. People can kill by necessity or choice. That's been true throughout human existence. Absurd. She was attempting to stab multiple people with a knife. She's 15 years old and not mentally impaired - there's no reason to believe she didn't understand the likely results of her actions.
What happened is a good example of how America is in trouble. Mental healthcare in this country is a joke. We bulk up police budgets (that average officers likely don't even see), and send them out like hammers in search of a nail. I don't want police at all, but if I had to have them, I'd save them for truly dangerous situations (for example, a mass shooter), and deploy professionals in health and human services positions for anything else. It's time the police stop getting used for everything under the Sun, because hammers are going to do what hammers do, whether it's a nail or a precious crystal vase. This is what "Defund the Police" has represented all this time, and until we actually start doing that, we're going to see 16 year old kids gunned down because the hammer found something resembling a nail and did what it does best.
