Uh, Walmart?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Bushmaster-M4A3-.223-REM-16-Patrol-Carbine/19235996

A buddy of mine in Arkansas says he got a flier that they are selling Sigs and Colts in West Memphis, in addition tot he Bushmaster above. They don't sell them in "urban areas."

I only bring this up for two reasons:
1. To troll liberals.
2. Because I'm baffled. I thought when Sam died, Walmart started to hate guns?

Rednecks selling redneck gear to rednecks -- is this really surprising?

You've been able to buy a Colt 6920 at WalMart for over a year now. It's actually not a bad price either.

Upper left on the page - mini-14 rifles are only ZERO DOLLARS! No wonder it gets a 4-star rating! If they pay you to take it you'd have 5 stars!

The reviews look good.

I wish they would beef up their stocks of Winchester Value Pack pistol ammo. One of the half dozzen or so that I check semi-regularly out of pure masochism, had a box of .45's a couple of months ago and thought I'd won the lottery.

Urban areas, or "Urban" areas?

Were I to buy a gun, I don't think I'd want to get it from Walmart, given the quality of most things I've gotten from there.

A Colt or Bushmaster rifle is still a Colt or Bushmaster rifle and comes with the same warranty no matter where you buy it.

Then don't opt for the Sam's Choice AR15.

So I dropped by the western Wal Mart to get some ammo, sure enough they've got the 6920 ($1097) and a Bushmaster M4A3 ($947).

I'm afraid there's about to be a hole in my bank account.

^Seconded on the bushmaster, the ones around here also have a few variations of the Sig Sauer M400, I'm giving those a though

Go on....

Is it really the same though?

Wal-Mart has a history of pressuring it's suppliers to cut quality to meet price points.

The Wal-Mart vice president responded with strategy and argument. Snapper is the sort of high-quality nameplate, like Levi Strauss, that Wal-Mart hopes can ultimately make it more Target-like. He suggested that Snapper find a lower-cost contract manufacturer. He suggested producing a separate, lesser-quality line with the Snapper nameplate just for Wal-Mart. Just like Levi did.

http://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart

A company my father was involved with decided to sell in Wal-Mart. Worst mistake they ever made according to all involved (at this end).

I dunno. Would it make sense for Colt or Bushmaster to build reduced-quality "Wal*Mart specials" on some days, while continuing with their normal processes and standards the rest of the time? I'd think what you get at Wal*Mart would be the same as you'd get anywhere else, so unless the quality went to hell across the board...

Depends on which side of the fence you're on, I suppose. Wal*Mart is absolutely ruthless on getting lower prices. I happen to think that's a good thing, since it means consumers pay less for the stuff they want and need. I know Wal*Mart's demands can be very tough on businesses, but no one's forcing 'em.

Did you miss the quote and link I provided giving an example of a company that has done just that (Levi Strauss) and another company (Snapper) that Wal Mart tried to pressure to lower standards and quality, and even suggesting ways the company could do it.

If you'd like an example of how this could be done when it comes to firearms, look at the STI Spartan. They are all still hand assembled in Texas by STI, and the 'guts' are all STI, but the Spartan has a frame, slide and barrel produced by Armscor in the Philippines.

Yes, they are ruthless and if price is all that matters to you (as opposed to the quality of the product or anything else) I can see how you would be a Wal Mart fan.

Wouldn't the model numbers be different if that was the case? Shouldn't an LE6920 be an LE6920?

Yes, but there's no evidence at all that's happened with Colt or Bushmaster rifles.

I'm not sure what your point is.

A gun is a finished good. If one factory turns them out, it's difficult to see how they could (by design, anyway) make some model gun with lower quality on some days (these to sell to Wal*Mart) without making them more poorly on ALL days. But, again, there is no evidence of quality problems with Colt or Bushmaster rifles.

I buy lots of things from Wal*Mart and they're no different than the goods I get anywhere else. My Wal*Mart Blu-Rays aren't lower resolution than ones I get from Amazon, my Wal*Mart Coke doesn't taste any different than the Coke I get at 7-11 or Safeway, my Wal*Mart Winchester White Box 100 round box of 9mm doesn't shoot any different than what I get at the sporting goods store.

And price is VERY DEFINITELY an aspect of quality. I'm a little disturbed if you think "lower prices" and "lower quality" are the same thing. As a customer, price is something I want MINIMIZED. If two products are equally servicable to my needs, the LOWER PRICED ONE *IS* THE HIGHER QUALITY ONE.

I bought a lathe "made in china" and finished in Germany.

The Chinese version is also sold "as is" but with much sloppier tolerances.

The inky way I can think to make a gun cheaper is less finishing work.

Ant gonna happen. Gunmakers don't need Walmart anyways - they can't keep up with demand as is.

Shifting the goal posts again eh Paladin? You started off talking about how brands were the same across outlets, then once that was disproven, now it is models.

And you really not understand what quality is? Price has nothing to do with it. I think the word you were looking for was value, of which quality and price are componants.

First of all, Ancalagon's tone isn't conducive to good discussion. Attack the argument and not the person or this will go no where.

Paladin's assessment of quality is something I disagree with, but not by much.

I go by the classic theorem that you can have two of three things: good price, good quality, or good service.

The pistol Anc is talking about is STI's entry level 1911-style handgun and they are made with different parts than their higher end (and higher priced) models. I assume that all STI guns are assembled at their place in Georgetown.

Anyone buying a Spartan and thinking they're getting a higher end gun is a fool, though. The price (not to mention the name) should tell you that it's an entry level pistol. Similarly, the price of a Colt or Bushmaster M4gery should tell you whether it's an entry level rifle or something better.

I thought we were talking about Bushmaster or Colt rifles. As far as I'm aware, they don't build Wal*Mart-specials, only their regular models.

Not that I want to go off on this tangent, but quality is fulfilling customers' wants, needs, and expectations. I would certainly argue that price falls into it and (to contradict apostle), service does, too. It's hard for me to imagine a product that is both low value and high quality...

Yes, although only the barrel, frame and slide are produced elsewhere. Everything else is pure STI. And after assembly (in Georgetown as you state) it goes through the regular STI QC.

Obviously. But as entry level 1911s go they're pretty sweet.

http://www.stiguns.com/the-sti-spartan-v-2/

Especially if you pay only ~$600 for one NIB. (with the couple upgrades I got I think it was around $660.

One thing to note is that nowhere in their catalog or on their page do they tell you about contracting out production of the above mentioned parts to Armscor. I knew that going in and so am quite happy with what I got, I can imagine other people not being so happy to find out afterwards.

But Paladin was just saying how price was part of quality!


Seriously though, the whole STI line of discussion was just to demonstrate to Paladin how gun manufacturers can quite easily produce lower quality weapons AND not be obvious to their customers about it since the examples provided in the link article weren't good enough for him apparently.

WalMart has a history of pressuring their suppliers to cut just those kind of corners. Which is why I made my original statement that just b/c something has the same brand name at Walmart as you are used to doesn't mean it is the same quality of product.

It is.

Which is higher quality: the thing that meets your needs but is too expensive or the thing that meets those same needs and is cheap enough for you to afford?

And you spent all that energy trying to disprove what I WASN'T claiming.

I'm sure many producers have a lower end product that they sell in Wal*Mart at a lower price.

But what YOU missed is that Wal*Mart is not selling a lower end model of Colt or Bushmaster, they're selling the same models they sell everywhere else.

I wish you people would actually read and understand what I'm saying.

I thought STI just made race guns.

Originally it was just high end components to customize race guns. Then they moved into making their own high end race guns. Then high end 1911s in general. Then 5 or so years ago I guess, with first the Trojan and finally Spartan they moved into the full spectrum of 1911s.