Vallejo holds panel discussion on what is and isn't funny...

And when I say truth, I don't necessarily mean about that group. Sometimes it is a truth about society.

Okay, so two complete retards it is. Got it. Nothing like smug self-righteous liberal assholes to liven up a dull day.

Precisely. "Offensive" got split into "micro-aggression" and "triggers", because "I'm offended!" eventually came to be seen, rightly, as what Stephen Fry well described thus:



Well, when people came to correctly understand that phrase as being one where the would-be "victims" were really just being passive-aggressive, manipulative little crybabies, the old refrain got repackaged as, "micro-aggression". Neat trick, huh? That one basically means, "Well, it's your fault, entirely, even if neither you nor anybody else can demonstrate that it's your fault!"

This "privilege" thing is really just the new "savage" accusation that was used to justify mistreatment of other minorities in the past. "Oh, it's all right to treat them that way -- they're only savages." "Oh, it's all right to treat them that way -- they're privileged."

Dress up the excrement as you like, the stink is just the same.

Again: To me it's about context. Does the joke reinforce stereotypes and does it reinforce a worldview that marginalizes certain group? If the answer is yes, I'll pass.
Women have to listen to sexist remarks almost every single day. If in context the message of the joke is that it's just fine to reinforce that situation, I'll pass.
When you encounter sexist remarks almost every single day of your life you don't "yet another sexist joke" particularly witty.

Glad to be of service.

Are you constantly being marginalized because of your gender or race? No?
That's the privilege. Now don't give me more of those white man tears about how hard life is for white men.
Life is hard. But being a white man sure doesn't make it harder.

You're having a hard time in your life because you're a dumbfuck. Being a white man has nothing to do with your hardships.

Unless the group is white men, if your earlier statements are to be believed. You see, reinforcing stereotypes is perfectly all right, if the stereotype in question is one you happen to approve of.

Don't misunderstand, by the way, I don't disapprove. Everyone is a bigot, is my line of thinking. Everyone. Including you. Including me. There are no angels on Earth or in heaven.

evenflow has no doubt spent many years protesting the Blue Collar Comedy Tour and, frustrated at his failure to be taken seriously, has decided on a micro approach.

So you're saying white men are a powerless group that has been disenfranchised and marginalized for centuries and to this day is struggling to influence politics, economy and media?

No, I'm saying that when you regard individuals only as expressions of a group -- which you have just done -- you stand on no higher moral ground than anyone else.

Are you enjoying moving the goalposts?

Where's that "dancing goalposts" gif when you need it. I'm not really interested in your logical fallacies.

Hur hur, she used the word that sounds like "phallus".

Ah, WF at it's best.

Two new members, and rather than ease them and debate their views, we're going straight to the abuse?

We can't get new members, why again?

Nothing wrong with going full throttle at established members, but how about tackling the content of their opinions first. We tolerate each others shit because we've coated the others in enough of it, let them get used to the smell of the jungle before we go full bonobo on them!

I'll say I'm still not sure if it's worth even bothering because people like John Castle aren't arguing in good faith. They're just practicing their bigotry by relying on logical fallacies and sophist debating tactics.

I see the new blood is just more professional victims and hand wringers.

Advice to newcomers: Whatever you do, do not, under any circumstances, open the smiley menu.

The new girl seems a bit humourless.

You're conflating two separate things here, with sexist jokes and sexist remarks. Sure, there is a crossover, but both spring from entirely different wells.

Jokes don't exist to reinforce anything, except maybe the tellers standing one way or the other.

It is person telling the joke that is important, and you can gauge what they're like from their overall attitude and performance.

Actually I feel quite privileged in many aspects.

I was privileged enough to get a good education but I love making fun of ignorant people. See? I'm a bad person, too. I'm worse than Hitler.
Although it's debatable whether or not ignorant people are really marginalized on the internet. Granted we've got a pretty small sample size in this thread but...

That is so naive. Of course they're two different things but they're connected. If people get the impression that making jokes about other races or genders is okay they're much more likely to think that their own sexist or racist ideas are okay.
In the best case the joke isn't meant in a bad way but can still reinforce the bigoted world views of others. In the worst case the joke is meant in a bad way because the person telling them is a racist/sexist himself/herself.

It's worth it. There are others here who will engage in good faith. John Castle learned his odd debating style from a very sad Star Wars fan site.

Straight white Conservative males (I guess we're driving the train here) don't do enough funny shit to make fun of.
And speaking of trains, I think enough Jews took that one-way train ride (hey! I paid for a round trip you cough...gasp.....aaaaargh....cough.........................plop)
that they were definitely oppressed and marginalized, so they pretty much have the right to say what the fuck they want.
I mean that is your mindset, correct? And please God don't bring up Germans and a sense of humor in the same sentence.
They are so fucking paranoid about being seen as less than tolerant they can't laugh unless it's run through several layers of approving authority.
I'm sure there's a rule against laughter anyway - there's a rule about everything there, and somebody in charge of something close-by.
When I was there we had an Army Major getting hassled at the gate and he made a joke about the "Soup Nazi" from Seinfeld.
Holy fucking mother-of-god this couldn't have created a bigger shit-storm if he had cut down a German flag and wiped his ass with it.
WWII is over! Nobody is holding anything against you for it! Atrocities happened and they will happen again, and unless you personally
gave Shlomo the Easy Bake Oven treatment, relax already!

Funny story from my high school days: it was one of those school spirit "dress up goofy" fun days. A guy who rode my bus (one year ahead of me)
dressed up in his grandfathers NAZI OFFICER UNIFORM. He was sitting in the back of the bus where all the cool kids sit.
When the bus slowed down almost to stopping in front of the school he jumped through the back emergency door and did a shoulder-roll then popped
up and kept walking without missing a beat. FUCKING AWESOME! He wore that shit all day long - fuck bringing a change of clothes to appease the whiners.
This was the 70's. If somebody did that now their ass would be brought up in front of a tribunal and burned at the stake, then begin years of posthumous
brainwashing therapy. It would be national news.

I might, if I'd done that. But I haven't. If you disagree, feel free to show how you believe I have.

Oldfella, what in all the blistering hells was the point of that?

Say something funny.

Come on, jump through my hoop.

Eh, don't judge the board on Castle. There are a lot of distinct personalities on the board, some more real than others. The RR isn't for the easily wound-up, there are few rules, and it was setup to be more of saloon than a debating room. If you treat it that way, are prepared to roll your eyes, shrug your shoulders and on occasion tell someone where to go very biblically, you'll be fine.

If you treat it as a debating society, be prepared for disappointment!

By "arguing in good faith", do you happen to mean accepting your invalid premises?

Which of my arguments can you demonstrate to be flawed? That's what sophistry is -- and an accusation of it without substantiating it holds as much water with me as a strainer.

As for logical fallacies, you're more than welcome to point them out specifically; absent that, ask anyone here, I've never been swayed when somebody just makes vague accusations that I've committed a fallacy, but never does manage to point out exactly where or which one.

So far, your "He's arguing in bad faith!" whinge sounds a lot more to me like, "He's not just rolling over and letting me win the argument!"

I've been rolling my eyes for 20 minutes. Motion sickness sucks.

I'm going to cry "foul" and practice my conjuration skill by making tandelou appear. Watch this space for cheese-references.

Try this instead.

It makes my cat look at me funny.
Also, how did you know I'm naked?

That is a naked smiley right? Or is it just me who can see this?

So joking and making fun of humorous traits or situations MARGINALIZES people? White society cares enough about your joke to change their moral compass
and political leanings?
Let me get this straight - if I tell enough jokes about blacks all of white society will make them sit in the back of the bus, use separate water fountains
and get denied service at the cafe? Blacks will be so brow-beaten because somebody joked about them that their whole world will fall apart?
Yeah, I'm sure comedians are really what's keeping any black person from getting ahead in life. The KKK can disband - comics have done all
the leg-work for them. Mission accomplished!

My general rule for comedy is: kiss down, punch up. In case it's not self-evident what that means, the idea is that you make jokes at the expense of the powerful so you can share a laugh with the powerless (or at least less powerful.)

Like Vallejo said, context matters. The idea that comedy is an equal playing field is a complete joke, too (no pun intended.) As a field, it's dominated by straight white men, which means it showcases and reinforces all the worst excesses of straight white men and their sensibilities.

I don't find it particularly funny when someone who is relatively quite privileged gets up on stage and makes fun of people who are commonly marginalized, ignored, and mistreated. It's like kicking someone when they're down, and you have to be quite insensitive to consider that amusing.

For what it's worth, I usually find Louis CK damn funny because he's aware of his privilege, pokes fun at it (and himself), and uses his soapbox to draw attention to all the stupid ways straight white guys mistreat others. We're not the comedy police come here to ruin your fun, but let's not pretend comedy--which is an art, after all--is somehow immune to criticism.

Of course not. Where did you read that?
Or can't you tell the difference between a racist joke and a "joke about a humourous trait or situation"?