well that escalated quickly! Business as usual or the tip of the iceberg?

Just for clarity, who questioned Israels right to exist?

Meanwhile, in Congress . . .

Good.

Well yeah, of course they have a military. They've been under attack by other countries since 1948, literally right after they signed their declaration of independence. There's a pretty severe need for them to have a military to be honest, not sure why "military shaming" them is relevant to the conversation

And Hamas has indiscriminately launched 3,700 rockets into Israel, which tells you what they think of Israeli civilians

Palestinians live under an apartheid government. Israel is an occupational government as well, hence why they also have to fight people around them. That's what happens sometimes when you just take someone's land and claim it as your own.

Where this becomes more complicated is that most occupations don't have an established multigenerational civilian component.

Is there fundamentally that much of a friend difference between saying "Israel doesn't have a right to exist" and saying "Israel is terrible for doing these things without which it would likely cease to exist"?

Basically, that boils down to "I don't have a problem with X, I'm just against every single thing that could possibly lead to it."

And granted, Joe Manchin seems to be pretty happy staking out that position on the domestic front, but...

and? Hamas was "punching up" because they are oppressed - duh!

where is Chad to say "you can take my balls in your mouth and claim them as your own" when you need him?

her stupidity is "direct attack weaponry" against American citizens.

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20200818_gaza_water_scarce_polluted_mostly_unfit_for_use

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/10/9/e034705.full.pdf

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupi...aza-unemployment-rate-second-quarter-2020-491

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352646716300758

https://www.btselem.org/gaza_strip/20201029_gaza_electricity_crisis_deepens_summer_2020

Multiple questioned if there was a right for any nation to exist - including you. Rick Deckard was explicit about it as well.

And you are entitled to you opinion, but no nation is going to let itself be destroyed because of said opinion.

Especially a nation made from holocaust survivors, who have reason to fear losing the protection of the state.

How long will the ceasefire last?

until it doesn't would be my guess.

Granted I don't have an actual degree in international politics, so it is just a guess.

I feel like most reasonable people watching the atrocities committed by Israel recognize that it's actually not an either/or situation like you're trying to present it, but if you really want to treat it as the cost of doing business, don't be surprised when people say that cost is too high.

I and Rick questioned the concept of rights applying to a nation, any nation.

I see no one claiming Israel should not exist.

The gulf between the two is massive.

It is unfortunate that the perpetrators of this slaughter now find their positions more secure. Instead of having to stand trial, as they should.

And the rest of us are free to go back to ignoring the plight of Palestinians, until the next time the IDF wants to kill them.

Uh huh. And what specifically did I say that you responded to?

who questioned the very notion of a nations' right to exist
Notice that it's plural. So that would be rights applying to a nation, any nation, correct?

But regardless, when I asked the question many pages ago if Israel had a right to exist, it's a logical incongruency to say that no nation has the right to exist but you mean Israel does.

And of course another thing entirely to say Israel shouldn't exist.

Though considering one of the discussions was a theoretical about going back in time and making a different decision so it did not exist, that too has been broached in this thread

We shouldn't be involved in this fight to begin with so I agree with her in this move, but for far different reasons .

Scroll back.

I specifically asked the question in these words:

So the ceasefire means exactly dick.

Wow. Did I say Israel, either time? Just for clarity's sake. You can ask me that question all you want, neither in my initial statement or in my response did I use those words, did I?

I said Israel.

We are discussing Israel.

The only context is Israel.

So, again, who questioned Israels right to exist?

Facepalm to your hearts content. I asked who had questioned Israels right to exist.

You replied that both @RickDeckard and I have.

That is simply not true and you've had to pedal back your claim whilst trying to maintain face.

Sigh.

I said a nation's right to exist.

You said, "I and Rick questioned the concept of rights applying to a nation, any nation." Anyone can scroll up to that. I referred explicitly to that in my initial post, then again when I answered you.

You then said no, only Israel, and are now demanding that no other context is relevant. Which is changing the goalposts entirely, considering what your quote explicitly says before that. If ONLY Israel is in question, why are you talking about any nation's right to exist at all?

But even in the context of Israel having or not having a right to exist, if your POV is that no nation have the rights to exist, then logically Israel can't have that right either, being a nation.

And of course you tried to confuse the topic even more stating the positive assertion that 'no one is claiming Israel shouldn't exist', which is a different thing entirely than whether it has a right to exist, and yes, no one claimed that, nor did I say anyone claimed that. But then, I only said nations period, not Israel, and you freely admit that is what you said.

You just don't like the logical continuance of that thought process.

No, I did not. This thread is full of people talking past each other.

So, no, you didn't say Israel specifically doesn't have a right to exist, nor did I say that you did, in either of those posts. But saying no nation has a right to exist HAS to include Israel.

All of which followed from my asking you who questioned Israels right to exist and your responding by naming Rick and I.

The question was specific.

The answer was specific.

There you have it.

You dodged the question right there.

So, just to be utterly clear the straight answer to my original question is:

no one made the claim Israel has no right to exist?