Though now that you mention it, is the Watcher the same guy in every episode? Or is there a multiverse of Watchers as well? Him interacting with evil Strange implies it's the same Watcher as before, but if it's the same Watcher in every episode, he should have known about InfinityUltron being able to perceive the multiverse and escape his own reality after seeing one appear at the end of the Thor episode. Others elsewhere have also pointed out that the Infinity Stones traditionally don't work outside of their home universe. Like Darkseid had the gauntlet once and discovered it was powerless in the DC universe, and apparently that was also a thing in the Loki series?
Confession: I have never been able to sit through Avengers: Age of Ultron or Thor Dark World. I've tried but I do not like those movies... but these D+ shows really make me feel like I've missed out on something. Is it worth another shot?
Totally different tone, IMO. Dark World is one of my favorites, a classic Thor story that took itself seriously. But that's not what MCU audiences seem to want, and the next story Ragnarok was fun and had stakes but was much more comedic. And it was considered a much better movie. If you like Hamlet, DW is something you'll enjoy. But that's not really where audiences are at these days, and I can understand that, considering how grim real life is. Personally I'm still good with grim fantasy, that's still escapism to me, but grim shows based in reality are getting harder for me to watch. Like Mare of Easttown - I get why people liked it, but I'm not as interested in that kind of story any more. Age of Ultron had its moments, but was probably the worst of the Avengers movies. I gave it a solid B, but it is pretty convoluted and wasn't always handled well. But it does a great job of setting up Civil War and the ultimate character arc for Endgame. And the party scene at the beginning was a lot of fun.
I also like the fact that this latest of episode of What If... basically says that Tony Stark is responsible for destroying the universe. (Contrary to Endgame, where he saved it.)
Back to my over-analyzing.... Just one note, then I'll drop it. Skill matters, but enough skill doesn't override power. Hawkeye isn't taking out Thor. So yes, I agree that the Ant-Man/Wasp make great assassins, and that's the What If that I really enjoyed. But I'm not sure they can assassinate anyone they want - some of these invulnerable guys are invulnerable down to the cellular level. Banner shoots off a gun into his mouth, and the Hulk spits it out. We'll see what they do with Thanos' backstory, if that plays in the Eternals at all, but in the source material Thanos is an Eternal, and he's monstrously tough because his entire being is infused with the power cosmic. No, I don't think the Pym twins could take him out in that manner. Even if Scott goes big, he just gets crushed against Thanos invulnerable body. And the point of Stormbreaker was Thor realized he needed a more powerful weapon to take on Thanos - that the previously most powerful weapon in the MCU wasn't powerful enough. That hurts your case, not helps it. In a great Hulk run where Banner goes dark and conquers the world becoming the Maestro, he points out that Cap's shield makes an incredible weapon, but Cap wasn't strong enough to utilize it the way he need to to be able to fight the big boys, like himself or Thor. If this ep had stated that the reason Ultron was so much more powerful with the stone than Loki or even Thanos was because of his much greater understanding of it I would have accepted that even if I don't agree with the assessment. When it comes to smarts, Thanos and Loki are up there with anyone. But OK, you gave me a reason to suspend disbelief. They didn't, and that's why I think the writing on this show is often subpar. It undermines everything that your source material created to say 'Meh, Thanos, that's not really a threat.' It's lazy writing, and one of the big reasons I love the MCU is they did such a great job with the characterization, and truly understand the characters. This show doesn't, IMO. Of course, that's just my take. You are allowed to like it because of your own reasons.
Mare was well done and I certainly understand why people liked it. I get that is just a matter of personal taste, and that particular preference was specific to that specific point in time, with the pandemic and all the other bullshit going on. The grimdark true crimes series are very popular right now, but not what I'm looking for at the moment. At various times though I've enjoyed the hell out of them - True Detective seasons 1 and 3 for example were fantastic.
Mjolnir was destroyed at the beginning of Ragnarok by Hela, and the Asgardians don't encounter Thanos until the very end of the movie. It was never part of the equation of fighting Thanos until Thor briefly brought it back from the past. That said, I can't see how Thanos would have been immune to the "pin your enemy under Mjolnir and watch them squirm helplessly" strategy.
What you're talking about sounds like what's known as the Worf Effect. You have a character that's been set up in continuity as the ultimate bad-ass, able to take on anyone and wipe the floor with them, and then when you need to show that a new character is even more awesome, you have the new one beat up the old one. Marvel comics uses Galactus for this a lot, showing some new threat dispatching the Devourer of Worlds to establish how potent they are.
This is the part I didn't get. Even with Hela. She would not have been able to pick up Mjolnir, let alone break it. MCU had to make Thor vulnerable. In the end, I liked the story as it was. Vulnerable Thor was comedic gold and did more to advance his storyline than all the mythology from the past .... two thousand plus years.
Fair enough. But we see Thor tossed around like a rag doll by Thanos at the beginning of Infinity War, and it is said explicitly that Thor needed a weapon. His quest was to kill Thanos, and Eitri stated that Stormbreaker would be the greatest weapon ever forged in Asgard, greater than Mjolnir. So again, that's about power.
Absolutely. You nailed it. And the Worf effect is widely regarded as bad writing. But this takes it a step further, b/c the moment Thanos is defeated isn't an eye opening reveal of a greater threat, but a big whimper at best played for laughs. People are allowed to like it, but I personally don't.
If I remember correctly, Hela never technically picked up Mjolnir, she only caught it by the head after Thor threw it at her. Maybe she was worthy to pick it up normally since she was a powerful warrior and leader in her own right, but I guess we'll never know.
You've messed up the quote tags. Lanzman has me on ignore, he'd hopefully puke if he realized you'd put my words in his mouth.
Yeah, it's annoying to have to delete out long chains. It would be nice if the software only replied to the one you are replying to. Especially when it keeps a previous reply that you decided you wanted to get back to by default, as opposed to only the one you are replying to at the moment.
No, she wielded Mjolnir in the hidden version of the mural. My head-canon is younger asshole Odin put a different enchantment on it to make her worthy.
Isn't "worthiness" defined by the hammer as bravery and a willingness for self-sacrifice? Maybe purity of purpose or some abstract concept? That's how Thor regained his worthiness in the first movie, right? I could see Hela meeting that standard while remaining a villain. I bet Tony could have finally pickled it up during his last few post-snap moments too.
As she is, in MCU, Thor's older sister, it would make more sense that Odin put the "worthy" enchantment on the hammer AFTER he imprisoned Hela. So, she still should not have been able to pick it up or catch it. But .., it's a movie and the story was good. So, whichever. I'm fine with the story as it is.
Yeah, but that program is installed by Odin. If Odin used to be a conquering asshole with Hela at his side, then he could have defined worthiness as cruelty back then.
^^^ That's actually a point that comes up in some geekish discussions about Mjolnir and "worthiness." Viking values were not 21st century western liberal democracy values, and what the king of the Viking gods would have considered "worthy" is likely not at all to be what we would.
If you're talking MCU, then "worthy" could mean something different. In actual Norse Mythology, Thor was a protector. So, if someone was out to destroy something - which Hela was in Dark World - then she would not be worthy. Maybe @Dr. Krieg can better explain it to us. If I recall correctly, he was big into Norse Mythology. Does he still post here occasionally?
What's hard to figure out? Odin just upgraded Mjolnir's operating system when he became older and wiser.
Yeah, I like the idea that Wonder Woman would be considered worthy while Superman would not, since WW is an actual warrior that risks her life in every battle while Superman is a nearly indestructible tank that received his powers more or less at birth.
We know from the cameo on Guardians of the Galaxy 2 that there are a number of beings of the same race/group as the Watcher in the MCU. I think we are supposed to take it as a given that the Watcher who has narrated every episode is the same guy. But that raises a question of what is going on because at the end of What if Party Thor, that one was surprised by InfinityUltron, and of course the Watcher in What if Ultron was also surprised by InfinityUltron.
He did inadvertently in the What if the Avengers were killed? And he could if given a powerful enough weapon, strategy, trickery, luck, etc. A bullet that Banner/Hulk sees coming is not the same as microscopic murder attempts that he does not. The What If the Avengers were killed showed that Hank Pym capable of killing Hulk in Hulk form through microscopic trickery. Scott and Hope aren't geniuses, but they could probably execute the basic strategy of stop blood/oxygen flow and/or destroy organs. Either shrinking part of Thanos's body, say, blood vessels, or increasing the size of part of his body probably would do the trick. I don't think we see Thanos use the Mind Stone by itself, as opposed to part of the complete set of Infinity Stones, so we can't say that Ultron was more powerful in using that stone than Thanos was or would have been. Loki clearly did not know what Mind Stone was or what it was capable of. Otherwise he would have done more with it than hypnotize some people by touching it to them. The only other people we saw use the Mind Stone on its own would be the Strucker and his people, Tony, and Vision. The first two clearly did not fully understand it or use it to its potential. Vision canonically said he didn't understand the Mind Stone either, IIRC. He understood it well enough to use it to shoop the whoop. Was that laser he was able to shoot capable of killing Thanos? Who knows? Possibly. We saw it was pretty darn powerful, as talked about earlier. The Ultron in this show had taken down and assimilated all of Earth's computer networks and had the stone be part of him for years. Even if we were to accept the premise that Vision couldn't have used the Mind Stone to one-shot Thanos, the show shouldn't need to spell out that Ultron had plenty of opportunity to improve his mastery of the Mind Stone. I don't think there needs to be an explanation "I've been honing my use of this stone for three years" or whatever to establish that Ultron is capable of using the Mind Stone do something. They can just show us that he is capable of doing it by showing us. Yes, a better fight would be better, by definition. That doesn't mean that it is in any way impossible or unlikely for Ultron to do what he did. But for what it's worth, Screen Rant agrees with you. https://screenrant.com/what-if-thanos-insult-ultron-death/
Apparently Star Wars is part of the MCU multiverse. https://www.instagram.com/p/CUfgULMKrja/?utm_medium=copy_link
The Soul Stone is still kind of confusing in the MCU. Who put it on Vormir or was it always there? Did it put itself there? And why did Red Skull get assigned the task of guarding it just because he touched the Space Stone? Who was guarding it for the eons before Red Skull showed up? Also it seems like only the first person to touch the Soul Stone has to make a great sacrifice. From that point on it can change hands multiple times without any further sacrifices needed.
