Wherein Chup proves what a racist he is

I didn't think it was your intention. I'm just speculating on why he might have reacted that way.

He can take umbrage all he likes. But it does not establish me as a racist if I was not motivated by a sense of prejudice or intent to make it a race issue (in fact it was he that turned it into a race issue by bleating on about tokenism)....and the claim in the thread title is that I am a racist, which he knows is bullshit.

You are white, therefore you are a racist.

Just get over it and move on. You can't win because nobody can win that one.

It's in a grey area of becoming uncouth in Canada yet oddly, a lot of them I know still use it... Sort of in the same way that Oriental or Colored have. THe terms I used earlier tend to be the ones of polite conversation, but if you find out someone's tribal associations or can wrap your tongue around a traditional name or phrase, you're conveying full on respect.

OTOH, when I call Capt X Captain Apple, I'm kind of slagging him hard.

miigwech gayegiin

So while racism has multiple, deep effects, I think everyone can agree on at two significant ones.

1) How someone presents. How does an individual come off to others? What positive or negative connotations go along with it?

2) Where someone starts off. What kind of an environment was someone raised in? What effects does that have now?

I'm Lakota and a member of a tribe in South Dakota. I'd say more, but, you know, creepy internet stalkers.

Yeah, people of mixed race have never been historically marginalized. That's just crazy talk.

"Representation" does not matter in any real tangible way. I developed the interests and passions I have without having some token to look up to. So there's no real positive to it, and the negative aspect is tokenism, as shown by Chuckles' character (who was actually based on advice from a con man). A supposed South American Native who was constantly played off as a stereotypical Hollywood Indian. It's funny because when I first started out writing fanfic, I actually created a character as a response to Chakotay for what basically amounted to "representation." But as I've gotten older I've come to realize that what I basically created was a Gary Stu. It's a form of narcissism, really, and that's one of the many sad things about "identity politics," because it places value on what a person is rather than who they are. It says that it doesn't matter what a person has accomplished, but the things they had no control over because they were just born that way are what really matters. Which is also part of why it disgusts me that a show is being sold to that crowd this way. Instead of it being an aspect of a character we, the audience, learn about through the show exploring that character, it's a goddamn selling point - "step right up and look at the gay!"

Yes, that'd be what I'm getting at, since the implication here is that both my parents have to be 100% Native for myself to count as Native.

Could it be that people confused what I was getting at? Well, judging by Quest's comment, I guess may that could be the case. I'm not "offended" by your use of the word Indian. Actually much like the name Sioux, it really tends to depend on who you ask, and I'm one who just doesn't care. No, what I'm raking you over the coals for is your implication that I need be 100% Native to be Native, hence the "not a single drop" comment. Gul got it, though. Man, I have my differences with him, but damn.

Turnabout, fair play, etc.

Well, if you want me to give you shit the way I do Liet, that's entirely up to you, wasicu. Or it could just be the occasional jab about leather jackets.

I doubt @Captain X is one of these type of "Indians".

That's why Jobu left...

I've clearly stated above that it was not my intention. I was simply curious as to whether or not you were mixed race, and if you were how the other ethnicity influenced your attitude towards things.

So we can assume from this comment that you were just petty point scoring and accept that I am not actually racist. Or are you still going to claim I am?

Of course it doesn't have a Native American population, you dimwit. But at one point in history it did have an aboriginal peoples, which you racist English fucks wiped them all out.

At least the Yanks and Canucks corralled all our native peoples into reservations.

Dumb.

Who do you think runs our casinos?

Maybe we were blessed to be born when we were. There are a whole lotta black kids around the time TOS aired who'd never seen a black lady in any role other than someone maids. Despite the unfortunate coincidence that one such child grew up to be Whoopi " it's not rape-rape" Goldberg, yeah, it did make a difference.

As for casting for a gay character, I remember how ridiculous some at TBBS found it after E2 aired that all the "men who were left over" were implied to all be straight when Malcolm laments dying as a batchlor. Its high time that genie was let out the bottle either way.

Why?

Why make a big deal about less than 3% of the population? (and no don't make that BS 10% claim that has been debunked)

Because like it or not, they do exist. Perhaps the interview was tactless in saying they're looking for a gay character, but given how far we've come in the last ten years in the depiction of gay characters,* to the point that Glee had half its cast on the gradient scale of queerness and still considered family friendly (it wasn't, for reasons that had nothing to do with the sexuality of its cast), I expect there will be little such tokenism as X fears.

*Best example is Cyrus from Scandal. He's the President's right hand man and takes his job seriously because power hungry as he is, he knows there's no way in hell he himself could ever get a nomination on the GOP ticket being openly gay. He and Mellie are the only two good things about that show anymore.

I would be willing to consider supporting a homosexual candidate if they were staunchly and reliably against elective abortion rights.

I grew up thinking I was 1/16 (yeah, so is everyone else). I went back in the genealogy and I'm pretty sure that's not so accurate--although my aunt still claims that my great-grandmother was full-blood. She sure has an English-sounding name for being native.

/oldfella

So is CaptainX one of those 1/64 native Americans or he is actually a Native American?

Read the thread to find out.

"We are all Britons!"

He's part Lakota and part Japanese cartoon princess.

It didn't say. He doesn't seem like enough of an alcoholic to be a real Native American. Also I've never seen him post about his casino time.

well, except for all the ones we ripped from their families as children and either forced into "residential schools" or simply adopted out to white families... "sixties scoop" and all that.

Such a weird American obsession...
The whole "My ancestor was a [nationality], so i'm 30/50th [nationality]/i'm [nationality]-American"...
My last name is Wien, which is German for Vienna, so there is a good possibility my ancestors came from Austria. Doesn't make me Austrian-Dutch, just simply Dutch...
You're not African-American, you're an American who happens to have black ancestors And you're not Italian-American if you're the 6th generation to be born in the USA, just a simple white American...

Forget it Jake....it's 'Murica.

And when you drill down to the DNA, it gets really interesting. Apparently one out of eight "white" Americans have African ancestry, and not just "we all originated in Africa" ancestry.

I've seen those Maury Povich makeover episodes of girls that are as pale as any lass from the Irish Isles and got kinkier hair than I do. This would certainly explain that.

Fun fact: after many years, my white chocolate mama finally decided to do away with the relaxers since the shit was breaking off her hair (along with the blonde color she added, presumably while in the middle of a midlife crisis ). All this time, I thought my hair came mostly from my dad's side of the family, but I was surprised to find herself could hold a twist almost as well as mine.

The comment was about white privilege, so...

But yes, I am mixed race. The Lakota background probably makes me more aware of issues affecting Natives, and living on a couple of reservations probably helped that, but it's also taught me that things aren't black and white.

That depends on whether you believe one must be 100% Native to be considered Native or not.

I always kind of liked the idea that Reed was gay for some reason.

There are two possibilities. It could be that her Native name was straight-up taken from her. For a while there, the Fed took Native children from their homes and sent them off to boarding school to "Americanize" them. This included things like not only learning English but being forbidden to speak their own native language and being given "Christian" names. The reason a lot of Natives have names like "Running Bull" or some other such name is because that was the original name of a child at one of these schools and it became their family name as they were baptized and given a Christian name of some kind. But sometimes the school went even further and they were given more stereotypical Anglican names. The other possibility is like that of my grandfather, who voluntarily changed his last name to a white-sounding one because he didn't want his children to be discriminated against on that basis.

I already said above that I don't. Are you standing by your racism accusation nonetheless?