Which Show Sucked More: ST:VOY or ST:Enterprise?

I've been catching old episodes of Voyager lately on Canadian Syfy channel (called "Space")

It's mostly true what most people here say about it, i.e. there is much sucktitude. Some episodes are almost unwatchable, but some are ok.

In any case, which Brannon Braga series sucked more, ST:VOY or ST:E? ST:E had a few good episodes in season 4 to redeem itself, but do the good episodes of Voyager outnumber the good episodes of Enterprise?

Voyager sucked WAY more.

And if you are asking "outnumbered" be sure you mention as a percentage because there were considerably more eps of Voyager.

I would argue, and have argued, that there are two decent seasons worth of ST:E - the BEST of ST:E is arguably not as good as the best of any of the first three series, but it's pretty good.

The problem is, those two seasons are season four, and 20 odd episodes scattered across three other seasons.

But on the whole, I think there are around 40 perfectly reasonable mid-range (for all of Trek) episodes, almost no "classics" and the rest is shit.

I don't think I could pick out even 20 episodes of Voyager that I'd force myself to sit through.

Hmmmmmm........don't think it can be broken down mathematically...or else, I just don't just want to put in the work of digging through the fucking things.....

I'll go ahead and say it comes down to the characters, and the actors who played them.

Voyager had Picardo/Holodock, and Voyager got better when they stopped trying to have it be an ensemble, and realized Doc/Seven/Janeway were the triad, with Picardo as the Nimoy.

Enterprise had Billingsley, and Trinneer, but...they didn't learn fast enough to have them be the show ponies, and didn't have enough seasons to realize it fully.
Then they went and fucking killed Trip.

So...Voyager probably had more good episodes, numerically, maybe even proportionally...

Buut....Voyager also had more flat out bad shit like the crummy boring Kazon, Naomi Wildman as Seven's Robin, and the goddamned Borg children.

Plus, Neelix and Kes were the fulcrum of the plot of "caretaker", and their characters were practically thrown down the garbage disposal while flipping the bird, so Voyager insulted its own origin story.

And a bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now, so, Voyager sucked more in the end.

Yeah, Voyager.

I arrived at it scientifically.

That's being pretty charitable. The reason Picardo wasn't completely shut out was because he spoke up for himself, from what I've read.

Enterprise's characters sucked, for sure. Half teh cast may have been replaced with cardboard cutouts, Archer was a horrible excuse for a captain, and T'Pol and Trip's romance is about on par with what passes for good writing on As The World Turns--which, given it's last episode airs in two days, isn't saying a whole lot.

The Voyager cast had potantial, but seemed a bit typecatsed--Harry the greenhorn; Tuvok the stiff Vulcan; Torres the half-breed fighting against her Klingon heritage.

That said, Enterprise occasionally took risks....some of which payed of better than others, but I respect that a hell of a lot more than Voyager, which was little more than TNG II: Electric Boogaloo.

ENT probably sucked more. Voy was pretty bad but at least had better actors and characters, a superior theme tune (I know, scraping the bottom of the barrel here...) and also did not suffer the ignominy of being cancelled.

This thread is like being chucked in jail, and then being asked which huge bastard would you prefer to be raped by?

I enjoyed Voyager, Enterprise bored me.

Hmm, I dunno. Have them fight over me first, then I'll make up my mind.

Voyager had a great premise, which it ignored after the first episode. And there was NO chemistry among the cast. Technobabble was off the charts and the overall writing was horrid.

Enterprise had a good premise that was also fucked up almost immediately. However, the cast was good and worked well together. And the fourth season redeems the series.

Voyager was a train wreck from start to finish. Enterprise got to show its potential in its final season. Voyager sucked more.

Voyager had a great premise and the pilot wasn't half bad. But B&B destroyed the rest of the show after that.

Ent was just terrible from the get go. Even the supposed "good" season 4 was boring and stupid to me. By that point too much damage had occurred to redeem this stinking pile.

Star Trek Voyager and Enterprise?

Never heard of them.

VOY had Neelix, and was thus worse than ENT as far as I'm concerned. They both had bad episodes and mildly good episodes, but VOY had Neelix in pretty much every episode.

Things I've said before, but I'll repeat them:

Voyager should have been the best Trek ever. Set it aboard a Defiant-class crewed by hard-assed Dominion War vets who had been patrolling the Badlands, put Ron Moore in charge of it. They cross the finish line with stolen Borg transwarp tech, their ship looking like a patchwork quilt.

Enterprise should have been about the Romulan War and the Founding of the Federation. Manny Coto running the show. I actually liked the NX-01 design, but I would have been just as happy with it being a Daedelus-class. End it with the crew sacrificing themselves in a blaze of glory that ends the war.

Both should have been continuous arcs from beginning to end with no standalone filler bullshit. If that means they each only run for three seasons, so be it.

The only good thing about VOY was the premise (which, as has been pointed out, was immediately abandoned) and the theme song.

I recently ran through the entire run of ENT on HDNet again and, while good chunks of it sucked, I was more interested in that show than I was the one about Janeway and her band of retards.

Would you rather eat a pound of your own feces or a pound of someone else's vomit?

That's how that question reads to me.

At lest nobody on Enterprise turned into lizards.

Oh, I dunno. I would have bone-stormed Kirstie Alley and Kim Cattrall while they were wearing pointy ears.

Voyager was at least set in the 24th century. Enterprise OTOH never even seemed like Star Trek.

I must have missed that episode.

Voyager was erratic, it actually had some pretty great individual eps but they missed on the premise, which wasn't suited for episodic TV and really needed to have carry over on a continuous storyline. There were some very good individual stories. If Endgame hadn't been so god awful, it might have gone down as average-good. A great ending would have made it. As it is, I think the sum was considerably less than its parts.

Enterprise's 1st season was probably the worst trek of all time, though I for one actually liked the pilot despite the continuity issues. Again, there were some really interesting ideas, but there was a whole lot of drek, and Marauders was dear god was is that terrible thing awful.

I think the Temporal Cold War could have been an awesome idea - but you have to know who the hell the players are, and have a plot in mind while it's going on. To have that idea and not have mapped it out? Just ridiculous.

The Xindi Arc overreacted, and proved Berman and Braga didn't know how to do non-episodic shows worth a damn. A couple of decent stories in there, but stretched out over way to long an arc.

Season 4 was great, and could have been among the best ever if Berman and Braga didn't come back to fuck up the show with 'These are the Voyages.' That was a testament to ego, and by then we all kindly wanted them to get the hell out.

I admit I found one or two episodes that enjoyed of each show. but even their nest eps were no better than an "average" TNG ep.

For reason unexplainable, I actually liked Trip and T'pol, and a little bit o' Hoshi. But there wasn't a single character on V'ger that I cared about. So in terms of characters, I liked Boobyprize a tad more. That would be a tad more than total despising.

If I was forced at gunpoint to choose one or the other for elimination from human memory, it would be V'ger.

Safe to say that neither show will intentionally cross my TV screen again.

Star trek ended in 1999 with the ds9 final arc.

I don't know what shows y'all are talkin' bout...

I don't even agree with that.

who was the "name" actor in Voyager? Mulgrew of course.

But she had no greater rep prior to the show than Backula did.

And both of them failed to live up to their previous reputations.

Was that actor or the character better when it comes to ...

Tuvok v T'Pol? Not IMO, Tuvok was wooden as hell, even compared to her.

Torres v. Trip? I never liked her and Trip was one of the better things about E

HoloDoc v. Phlox? both were the best performer in their crew.

Paris v. Travis? I'll go with Paris here, thugh they horribly misused the character

Kim v. Reed? Did ANY one like EITHER of these guys?

Seven v. Sato? I liked both of them, thought the actresses and the performance was fine, if unremarkable.


if you have to take the crews whole, all or nothing, i'll take the enterprise crew without much hesitation. Even with their flaws.

In JELLO.

given that there were no regularly appearing Vulcans after Spock (and sarek) that's damned faint praise

It boils down to this...

Enterprise was just fucking boring.

I mean I fell asleep during the second episode for god sakes. Hoshi's slug set the pace fot the entire series.

Voyager may have been wasted potential, and sure episodes like Threshold were just beyond crazy. But atleast Voyager was entertaining most of the time. Heck even Threshold had Tom Paris pulling out his own tongue.

Watching SevenOfNine fight The Rock may not be great storytelling but atleast it won't put you to sleep.

And let's not forget ENT was so bad it tried to rip off stories from it's own franchise, namely the DS9 "There all holograms!" storyline. Or when it ripped off Beauty and The Beast for another awful Hoshi episode. ENT was like Sliders season 3 bad.

It must have been bad. I don't even remember those two episodes.