Wokeness ate my baby tangent from political meme thread

Let's take them one at a time:

Thor was played for laughs, yes. But he objectively was powerful and competent. After all, the movie opens with him basically singlehandedly routing an alien invasion, he killed MF-ing Zeus and beat the God Butcher. He was objectively not evil.

Luke Skywalker in the sequel trilogy was broken because he had suffered the failure of having his own nephew go to the Dark Side and having his entire school murdered by him and his cronies. He was (arguably) tempted by the Dark Side himself to strike Ben down and resisted. We don't ever get to see the details of how he failed, just got told that he had failed and thus put himself in isolation from people and the Force. It just shows that he was human and still had more learning to do. And indeed, he managed to basically make Kylo Ren shit his pants when he force-projected, and he bought time to save the good guys from the First Order. Finally as a Force Ghost, he helped guide Rey just as Ben and Yoda had helped guide him. Not weak, incompetent or evil. Not to mention that Luke appeared in The Mandolorian and The Book of Boba Fett in his prime where he made Moff Gideon also shit his pants, destroyed what a bunch of Dark Troopers with about as much effort as it takes us to blow our nose, and was revered as a possible teacher for Grogu.

I can't say I have watched a lot of Harrison Ford's recent work. The two that I have are Rise of Skywalker and Blade Runner 2049. I think it is safe to say that Han Solo isn't portrayed as weak, incompetent or evil in that movie, or if you think it is, please explain how. Blade Runner 2049, honestly, I fell asleep during and don't remember well, but I don't think he's portrayed as weak, incompetent or evil there either.

I already talked about Nick Fury above. Despite sneering about the "M-She-U," most Disney productions at least from the Marvel side have male protagonists who are portrayed as very powerful, very skilled and very good. Disney as a whole has a bunch of women protagonists, but I can't think of too many males from there who are weak, incompetent or evil besides the obvious villains and their sidekicks. The good guy men and good guy sidekicks so greatly outnumber anyone who could be reasonably considered weak, incompetent or evil it's not even funny.

Picard in his first two seasons (and his third) remains a huge moral authority, and is depicted as being the force that saves the galaxy twice. How is that weak, incompetent or evil?

I should say that there's a common theme about the specific examples of most of the people you've cited: with the exception of Thor, you are looking at heroes who are way past their prime. And even so, they all are shown to have major skills. Not one of them can reasonably be said to be "evil."

I probably can save my breath anyway, because if this is the best you can do when cherrypicking examples, and when you fail to recognize the numerous counter-examples, a small handful of which I cited in my previous post, there's no convincing you that the Woman is out to keep you down. :tinfoil:

 

No, it’s not like that, just that men still to this day, you included, think women are weak. Some are. So are some men.

 

I think men are just being portrayed realistically, now and that makes them seem weak. I guess.

 

It's not even new though.
Every James Dean movie I ever saw, he either whined like Luke Skywalker, or cried 10 times harder than Burnham.
This in the same era the John Wayne movies were dropping.

 

Yeah, but in those movies, even if a woman told him to man up or stood up to the bad guy, it'd be Dean who cleaned the bad guy's clock.

You can see "brassy" women in 80s movies, even the hypersteroidal shit like Commando, but they need the male hero to do the IMPORTANT fighting. They might knock a minor thug unconscious with a vase or some shit, but they aren't taking on Alan Rickman, even though you could knock Alan Rickman over with a stiff breeze.

 

In the good old days women had the decency to inspire a male hero by getting killed after having sex with him. But now they just try to talk to the hero? Emasculating! Bring back the fridges!

 

I've always maintained Valeria steals the movie from Conan right up until she dies.
They had to fridge her to keep her from pulling a Furiosa.
Ah, the Elseworlds 80's that could have been!

 

There is a trope of "dumb slob husband, smart hot wife," the archetype of which is probably Homer and Marge Simpson, but that really peaked in the '80s and early '90s and has fallen out of favor since then. (And I don't think anyone has ever accused Family Guy, the most modern example I can think off, of being overly woke.)

 

Weeeelll....Seth makes his liberal point of view known through Brian.
Even though he tries to balance it out by making Brian a hypocritical asshole.

 

Would a modern movie ever let Luke rescue her from the death star, or jabba's palace?

 

You want examples , I gave them. Cherrypicking? As opposed to what? A notarized policy memo , signed Big Hollywood?

 

Even then, the dumb slob husband is still the head of the household and an object of desire for the smarter hotter wife by the end of every episode, even if it makes no sense for that to be the case.


Of course Thor and Pike and Bond are still at the top of the pyramid and objects of desire by the end of their stories as well, but for some reason that's not good enough anymore.

 

What exactly did I lie about?

 

Oh, and that right there is some dishonest bullshit. Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor would like a word with you about writing competent women without trying to elevate them by making all the men buffoons.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if and @Bailey definitely did are not the same thing.

 

Hudson was a whiner, and Burke was a scumbag.
If that movie came out right now, your vloggers would edit out Hicks and Bishop, and just show the Hudson/Burke failure clips, and go "emaaacuullaaaatiooo-ho-ho-ho-hoooonn!! ".
And your dumb ass would be all "Yeah! That really objectively happened! That edited clip is my memory now! ".

 

Lol what?

 

The Mandalorian let Luke rescue several women (and men) from a bunch of dark troopers.

Obi Wan let Obi Wan rescue Leia herself over and over.

TROS let Ben rescue Rey at the cost of his own life, and let Finn and Poe and Lando be the ones to rally a fleet to help the good guys after Leia completely failed to do so in the previous film.

Are you even watching the things you complain about?

 

No one is denying that you are a wildly insecure male.

 

Same advice as I gave Federal Farmer:

You should really see someone about your anger issues.

 

Yes.

I can't say that I've seen all of the 2023 movies that have been popular but I imagine, for example, that no matter how feminist Super Mario World is, it involves some level of Mario being the big savior of the Mario universe and saving Peach (even if it empowers Peach and she probably saves Mario once or twice); Scott Lang beats Kang and rescues Cassie (although he himself gets helped/rescued by Hope and more), so on and so forth.

But none of those are actual examples of men being treated as evil for sure. And of all of them at best, Thor is made to look goofy. None of them are made to look weak or incompetent. Those aren't examples.

When the best you can come up with aren't depictions of men being portrayed as weak, incompetent or evil, and you ignore the plethora of examples where men are being portrayed as powerful, competent and good, there's no other term to describe it but cherrypicking.

Again, take the most popular movies out so far this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_films_of_2023

Of them, only two have women as the chief protagonists, The Little Mermaid and Scream VI. Again, I've not seen most of them, but I think it's fair to say that in no way are Mario, Ant-Man, John Wick, Creed, Miles Morales, Dom Torretto, and his family, or Optimus Prime portrayed as weak, incompetent or evil.

 

Ayup. Any competent men in that movie were either not men (Bishop) or Hicks, and his ass got fridged so Ripley could go Momma Bear. Gorman was a twat. Apone was your usual military gung-ho type who got himself chestbursted.

If you can look at what Aliens did to make Ripley awesome and not accept the same holds true today, your mind has been rotted by MRA twats on YouTube.

 

Honestly, I think a movie like Aliens would have at least a plausible argument that it emasculated its male characters compared to many that UA and FF now cite.

It does, after all, have the classic exchange of:

Hudson: Hey, Vazquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?
Vazquez: No. Have you?

And there are a lot of men who are some combination of weak, incompetent or evil in it who aren't the antagonists.

 

God I hope so. Otherwise my weiner might fall off.

 

Why do you assume we are angry?

 

Another point of commonality among many of the purported examples occurs to me:

In many of them, female characters either question the male characters or rise up to their levels suddenly.

Regardless of the objective truth of Thor remaining powerful, skilled and good, it might be problematic to some that Jane Foster suddenly is as powerful as Thor, even if she is fairly clearly not as skilled at using his powers as he is. Never mind that Cap managed to have Thor's powers, or that Thor in Love & Thunder shares his powers with a whole bunch of Asgardian children. The elevation of Jane Foster for some people is bothersome.

Rey is shown to do things that Luke and Anakin did not. Never mind that Kylo also accomplishes things with the Force that we hadn't seen before, or that Luke himself accomplishes things with the Force that hadn't been shown to be possible prior to the sequel trilogy. The sequel trilogy suggests that Rey has accessed powers more quickly or effortlessly than Luke did, so for some, that's bothersome, even though again, Luke remains objectively powerful, skillful and good.

Nick Fury remains a bad-ass, and as I said elsewhere, will almost certainly foil the Secret Invasion plot by the end of it. Unquestionably powerful, skilled and good (at least, in a Machiavellian sense). But because a couple women dare question if he's ready to take on a massive terrorist movement, some might find that he has been portrayed somehow as weak, incompetent or not good.

Picard in most respects hasn't changed much from TNG to S3. But because S1 and 2 of Picard featured Raffi talking smack to Picard very occasionally, some might translate that as showing Picard to be weak, incompetent or evil, I guess.

Note, I don't want to put words in UA's mouth, and maybe that's not the reason he cited these as examples of the supposed ubiquitous trend of men being undermined. But it seems a notable commonality all the same.

 

Anna has pointed out in multiple occasions that many of the same people that hate Raffi for talking smack to Picard absolutely love Shaw for doing the exact same thing.

 

why are you presenting as such?
(and let's face it, UA is always angry. granted it tends to be over stuff that doesn't affect him, but that could easily be part of it)

 

I'm not, that's just the way you perceive it.

 

Force abilities are a lot like R2D2's attachments.

"So what happens next?"
"Well, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are gonna use Force Speed to run super fast and escape."
"Oh, Force Speed! I bet that's going to come in handy later in the movie."
"They will never use it again."