The Dayton L. Kitchens thread with only positive things.

Found one.

If Dayton ever sank a ship he'd tell you he was a great Captain for managing to get it out to sea in the first place.

Sometimes its hard not to believe Dayton is an elaborately crafted troll persona.

I believe it is the path to obtaining forgiveness of my sins and entrance into heaven.

Interesting.

In all the religions man has ever invented, the whole point is to obtain God's help (or the help of the gods, or spirits, or the "universal principle" or whatever form the divine takes in that religion) with things that are troubling us, either to make life better (prosperity gospel) or less bad (as in animism). Being forgiven, in order to avoid hell (which is definitely a big problem) and going to "heaven" (a paradise where life is good) very clearly fits that description. Thus, your "Christianity" is of the same fundamental nature as all the other religions man has invented.

The gospel of Jesus, however, is of a very different nature. The prime goal is not to deliver us from the punishment for sin (that's what forgiveness is all about), but to deliver us from sin itself. From the very beginning of the New Testament, that is taught over and over and over again. As soon as the introductory genealogy in Matthew 1 is done, we have the story of the angel explaining to Joseph how it happened that his fiancee was pregnant, and he explained the reason for it by saying "You will call his name Jesus, for he is the one who will save his people from their sins." Not just "forgive his people," and not "save them from hell" or "save them from their problems," but "save [="deliver"] them from their sins."

Thus, according to the New Testament, the whole point of the gospel is to change our hearts, to make us holy, to deliver us from the fundamental selfishness that is our natural state.

You seem to have missed that entirely, and it doesn't even seem to motivate you particularly. Are you sure the gospel you believe is the gospel of Jesus Christ and not sinful man's gospel of a God who is there only to make life easier for us?

In other words Dayton's sole motivation for following religion is how own selfish interests. I'm shocked I tell you! Shocked!

Actually, that is the primary or even sole motivation for almost all religious practices. That is why, contrary to popular belief, I am not a big fan of religion in general. If the primary goal is not to change your heart and teach you to care about others, but only to get divine help with your personal problems, what you need is magic, not Jesus Christ.

And magic doesn't exist...

Surely what you are actually saying is that it's solely down to the individual and his reasons for coming to religion? Otherwise it would be proper to lump you in with the others you say you do not approve of, no? When I was brought up I had a conflict of religious opinions around me, from the Jewish elements of my family to the Christian school I went to. I also had contact with quite a few Jehovah's Witnesses asI grew up owing to a friend who was one, and I have researched Islam (not for any other than scholarly reasons despite what the trolls may assume) and ancient religions as the years have gone by. The overriding and most element to all of these religions/factions was interpretation. It was one of the fundamental reasons I could never accept any of them to be a legitimate account of either the past or what I perceived to be the mystical. But the point is that each and every individual who subscribed to them had their own motivations for doing so. A great many of the people I encountered along the way did not come to religion because they viewed it as a self-interest action, but rather because they felt it helped to teach them how they should live their lives. I guess the self-interest element comes into play only if the individual places a great deal if reliance of those elements of the dogma that are concerned with things like salvation, heaven and resurrection. Is it not therefore somewhat sweeping and generalising to say that most other people come to religion for self interest?

I don't disagree with most of your post, but I nevertheless take exception to your idea that most people come to religion because it teaches them how to live better lives. Even in Christianity, where the explicit goal is to change our hearts and make us holy, it has not been my experience that most people who call themselves Christians are primarily motivated by that. And in many other religions, there isn't even any such teaching. When did you ever hear of an animist who followed his religion because it taught him how to be a better person? How many ancient religions even had such a concept, until Christianity (the Messianic variety of Judaism) spread across first Europe and then the world? In ancient times, the need for self-improvement was usually philosophic rather than religious in nature.

But we are talking about the modern era and the living constituents of religion. How can you know what their ultimate motivations are? Collective writings? Organised preachings? A survey? Surely it's a very difficult question to draw data on?

What is wrong with self interest? IIRC there is the quote from the New Testament "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (don't remember the verse). Thus ultimately, each persons forgiveness of their sins and salvation is strictly on an individual basis. Nothing you can do can save the soul of someone else ultimately. It is all on them no matter how much you try to convert them (though the effort is considered a good thing).

I’m not sure if I’ve ever heard anyone use ‘self interest’ as a defining characteristic of a good Christian!

Fear and trembling? See, this is why I have an issue with organized religion. Spirituality should NEVER be based on fear and control. Those are man-made concepts and they are inherently evil.

I saw a Dayton post I disagreed with. Anc, how do I disagree with it? All I see is "Like". Where "Dislike."

He'll be implementing the Xenforo ratings mod if he has any sense.

Neg is dead.

Indeed. We all get participation ribbons, and if our shins get scraped Ancagalon will lick the tears from our face.

I would have thought you would like the kid glove protective treatment, after all you spend half your time running off reporting everyone every other post like the pussy bitch you are!

Are you kidding? That would be about as interesting as this short documentary:

Dayton never changes his opinions on anything, ever, no matter what new evidence may come to light. He is steadfast that way.

Ahhh, to reflect upon past prophecies in the age of Federal Farmer....

Although, you wrote that during the age of Castle, so there was already someone worse than Dayton.

EDIT: NM

Nah, I never consider Castle to be anything other then pitiable. Sort of like a one legged dog.

Pretty much, although I'd say he's more like baba with better spelling, even worse people skills, and anger management issues.

Valuable water that goes in comes out again.

Wait, that's kind of neutral.

He's not "The Flashlight".

He has never raped a living penguin.

By minimizing his bathing he helps to preserve precious water resources.

Are you positively sure about that, Faceman?