Whelp, it's like the fish-sandwich analogy I made in the homosexuality thread. It's not even up for you to "agree", or "disagree", with. Don't like fishburgers, don't eat 'em. Don't want your weenie lopped off, don't do it. Shep wants a fishburger, all righty.
Course, Shep, you know what angle I have on it. Do I even have to say it? I'm anti-repression, anti-fear, pro-people being true to themselves, and anti-religion. You pretty much know what I'm thinkin....
It's certainly a huge step. And I know that a lot of M2F get a lot of facial surgery that I'd be pretty reluctant to consider but... there's no point in me being coy about it - I can't see any possibility of me being able to afford SRS and choosing not to have it. the "no coming back from that" issue is non-existent with me. From the time I began to tell people there was no going back. The dangers of surgery matter I take with much more respect for your knowledge and appreciation but...most of that which is best in life involves risk. it's the way of the world.
Okay. But if you do ever undergo the surgery, definitely research the doctor performing the procedure. Extensively. Know as much about the procedure as you can before going into it and make sure the doctors inform you about all possible risks and complications. Don't just go with the surgeon who offers the best price.
Such a surgery would require financial means that Shep frankly doesn't have, so that's a bit of a moot point.
Absolutely. that's part of the value of the TS board I'm visiting. The membership there has had experience with all the major surgeons and if any of them are sub-standard (in ANY way) the word gets out.
Never say never.... the government covers the cost of the surgery for prisoners. All Shep has to do now is rob a liquor store, and everything gets taken care of!
Dear Storm, Remember when my house caught fire and you helped me out? Well you aren't going to believe who's flaming now! Love, [-]Shep[/-] Crysalis
Certainly puts a whole different spin on the "help shep" idea, eh? Phantom would have loved this thread.
Shep, Knowing what I do of Gender Dsyphoria all I can say is best of luck. You've defiantly got a tough row to hoe, aint no doubt about it. I can only imagine the disruption to your self and your family. You gotta some how get under the care of a therapist that specializes in this. While support groups are great, you gotta be under the care of a professional. For those that don't know, there is a huge body of psychiatric and medical evidence that shows there is a big difference between the gender you are born with and gender identity. For a majority of the population its no problem. You have boy parts and you feel like a boy or you have girl parts and you feel like a girl. This applies over all forms of sexual orientation. However there appears to be a small part of the population that though they have a clear physical gender, they have the opposite gender identity (I.e. boy parts, but they feel like a girl). This is completely different from folks that like to cross dress out of a sense of thrill in that though they may role play in the role of the opposite gender, they still recognize that they are only playing.
Can't be said loudly enough. There is NO "sexual thrill" component to this for me, never was. And it's documented (although my wife is one who doesn't believe this is possible) of kids as young as 3 who were convinced their parts were wrong.
Really not sure what to say about this, so I won't say much. I agree that this is going to be really tough on your wife, and is going to get harder and harder. And it's going to be very tricky for you to be supportive of her, because in her mind it is very likely that the husband she wants to support her "no longer exists" (though she might not put it quite that way, even in her mind). I believe it is going to be hard for you, too. Probably very hard. And I think your faith is still important to you, but in Evangelical circles (a subject about which I know something...), you will probably find very little acceptance. Which means you are going to find yourself isolated spiritually at a time when spiritual support would be very useful. I guess about the only thing I can say for now is this: Whatever you do, whatever happens, remember that God's love is unconditional. And you can be brutally honest with him, because he knows you better than you know yourself.
THAT sir, is the last best rock upon which all else rests. Otherwise, I will simply nod in your direction because I take issue with nothing you said.
That is another problem I have here. Seriously Shep, I support your decision, but please tell me you're more concerned about your children's future than you are about this sex change surgery. Because if you're not, get your fucking priorities in line. Its all nice and fun to have the ability to help your personal problems, but not if you're going to sacrifice the future of your children, and perhaps your wife to accomplish it. If that means being a depressed person for a few more years until the kids are out of the house, so be it. To me, parenting is all about sacrifice, and as much as you think it hurts your children to have a father who is depressed and off in the distant because of a problem they have no control over, how much worse do you think it will be if your kids, and your wife.....choose to break away from you because of the choice you made? How would THAT make you feel? I can't get over this feeling that you seriously considering sex-change surgery is anything but selfish at this point. Your wife is already grieving. How are you going to fix that problem? Oh, and sorry Tamar, but even the deepest bond of love and friendship can fall apart with a decision like this. I love my GF dearly, but there is no way on earth I would expect her to stick around if I went through this kind of insanity. Bluntly, if I had to be honest, that is what I'm thinking. Take it any way you want. Again, I'm not trying to judge your decision, but just make sure you're considering all the people you're going to hurt by going down this road. Is the pain of numerous others worth your personal self-satisfaction?
Of course. You might not be considering the time frame necessary in order to finance surgery if it ever happened. A decade would be optimistic. At the moment, it's as much a fantasy as winning the lottery so, no, I'm not stupid enough to make financial decisions which sacrifice my families interest chasing that ring. that whole conversation was part of the process when she and i first talked it over. both of us are aware that what we ultimately decide as a couple is slave to what gets them through childhood. This thing is ALWAYS seen as selfish because there is always someone to be hurt or not understand or whatever. it was my effort to be selfless that led me to this place 25 years too late. But since I don't have the financial wherewithal to even have laser treatments, there's nothing financial to take away from them, not would I. That said, we have survived here for almost 10 years on a bare minimum financial situation and I have some of the best adjusted, most mature and balanced kids you would ever want to meet. how much money one spends on their kids doesn't make good parenting. And before you start in about college - there has never been and was never going to be a "college fund" - if they went they'd have to do it like poor people do, and frankly, I'd rather see them join the military anyway. the don't fuck around teaching you shit you don't really ever need to know. I've already acknowledged that problem. What you take as selfish and uncaring I submit as evidence that there's something going on here you can't relate to. you don't know me, in real life, but if you did, you would know that nothing else in my life to this point has ever been a higher priority to me than my marriage. The fact that the two are now in conflict is a testimony to just how inescapable it is. And, by the way, the choice to have or not have surgery isn't relevant on this point anyway. if i end up living as a woman full time and I still have my "junk" I will still not be the man she married,(in her eyes) surgery or no surgery. Perhaps, in many ways, I'm already not that man. and, with all due respect, while i welcome conversation on this subject - I'm going to say this one time and entertain no more discussion on the point: ANY implication that I am unaware of, unfeeling of, or dismissive of the pain and suffering this shit brings to my marriage is horribly uninformed. Don't think for one nanosecond that the tears don't flow when I consider the no-win situation this creates. And do me a favor and don't presume to know anything about how we are dealing with it. Respectfully asked. I'm not sure whether my wife will always want me but I know for a FACT that many couples split over this and many stay together. if i wanted to violate my discretion regarding the other board, I could point you easily to a woman who's wife kicked her to the curb like she was a pedo, and i could point you to one who is very proud of her spouse and not only supports her but openly brags on her. And every variation in between. what may or may not happen in your relationship is not indicitive of any other. I didn't just decide out of the clear blue sky last week. give me a LITTLE credit please.
Nope, not going to give you credit nor will I stop criticizing you until I'm perfectly satisfied that WF has covered every single angle possible, and we've forced you to defend yourself in every way possible. I don't know how much real-life experience you have with the people who have chosen to go down this road, but I've seen two cases that were near and dear to me, well...at least until they people involved moved, and I honestly felt bad when I heard that one of them ended up becoming a meth addict as a result of surgery and a lifestyle gone bad. For a few years now, I've always wondered how things could have been different if I had spoken out. Instead, I choose to stay quiet about it. So, until I'm satisfied here, I'm going to keep questioning you. Take from it what you will, but as someone who got to WF right when the the 'support Shep' campaign was underway, I do care about you and your family, and have always valued you as a poster. And I think a lot of people here on WF will echo my sentiments. Its not that we're refusing to give you the credit for thinking this through, but we all think we know better, and it'll take a little time before any of us are satisfied enough to become more positive in our replies to your decision. You've been thinking about this for months. We've had 8 hours. We'll work through it. I think you wanted this anyways. You wanted the criticism, you wanted us to know, to question, to hound you, to applaud you....to jump on you, to question your sanity, to tell you you're stupid, to make fun of you, to troll you.....because this way we all help you make for damn sure that this is what you want. Its all fine and dandy when YOU have thought about it, and YOU know what you want, but there is a community of people here that have known you for years, and our response is important to you. Even our criticism is important to you. We'll work it out. Just watch.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over. Well, outside of your obligations to your wife and children, your life is your own and you're free to do with it as you please. So long as you let me poke you in the ribs over it from time to time as guys...erm...friends are wont to do, I've got no beef with it. Oh, and from this moment forward, I shall call you Ethel.
Seems to me that if you ever found me a respectable sort in the first place - and from the rest of your post i assume you did - that a modicum of credit is due. that's not to say you should just say "whatever" and move on, but at the same time don't presume that I'm a total moron either, unless you hold the position that anyone who changes gender is a total moron by definition. As you wish. Please understand though that I feel no obligation to respond to every question, particularly those which i think unnecessarily or illogically challenges my character. I'm not holding out for 100% positive responses. Paladin, Marso, and Tex have expressed disapproval and I respect that. what I take issue with is anything that implies that I just woke up one morning and said to myself "you know what, what the hell! I'm gonna do it!" I also take exception to the whole recycled business that I was a fundie once but I saw that coming so it's part of the process. Thinking ACTIVELY about it for a couple of years, but it hasn't been far from my mind for well over 30. Uuummm....no. You have misread the situation. What I wanted was honesty from myself. to take off the mask. I ACCEPTED that would provoke trolling, and I anticipated pretty much entirely the nature of the trolling. I also anticipated and accepted that there would be principled disagreement. What I was NOT looking for, and will not dignify further, is the postulate that I have given no care to the pain of my loved ones. Tell me I'm wrong if you like, do NOT tell me I don't care or gave no thought to it. It is precisely BECAUSE you guys have known me for years that I am troubled about that particular implication. (note - generic "you" in the following passage) If I am a "supporting player" here who doesn't matter to you then fine, frankly, none of this is for you and honestly I could give a fuck what you think about it. BUT if you consider me a friend, you must do so BECAUSE you have seen something in me worthy of that position - and if you have, then it follows you can spot me a bit of credit that I am not being a complete bastard about this. (which is exactly what I would be if I had hurt my family cavalierly)
My two cents: You don't want a pussy. Those things look scary! I know because I got scared when I put a mirror up to mine! In all seriousness, you're free to do whatever you like and I won't see you any differently, except I might call you "honey" and "sweetie" and ask you to help me out in the kitchen! Ok so I'm not being serious so far. Hmm. Alrighty then. Let's put it this way. I won't give you any crap for it. I support ya. BUT, you have to take crap from WF. Why? Because you'll be getting crap for the rest of your life. Learn to respond to it NOW, when you have time to think, type, and reply. People bothering you or questioning you here will be practice for the real world, where you know you won't always have time to stop, think, and respond calmly. Be VERY open with your wife. If she wants to talk, talk. If she doesn't, be patient. If you've taught your kids to be open-minded, they'll be ok. Also, where's my sandwich, bitch?!
I'm so proud of you; anybody who rejects you for the courage it took to tell us is despicable. Don't let anybody ever bring you down. It takes a strong person to do what you did, and you've earned my absolute respect in doing so. God bless you, tr
Send me pictures and I'll give you a proper evaluation. Don't forget the browneye. And do forget to shave.
Shep, Crysalis, or whatever you decide to go by, I don't know you yet, but I am still proud of you. Congrats on "taking off the mask"!!!! I've been reading all of these various threads about this topic for hours (they are getting added to so quickly!!!) and this took a lot of courage. It seems like many people are supportive of you, but many disagree or don't understand why this is happening. I will 100% accept you as a female since that is what you have realized your gender is. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, you did this for YOU and that's really all that matters!!!!!!! All people need to try this more, it would help. Almost everyone puts up a front of some sort. Often it seems that people are very concerned (even if subconciously) of what people think of them. This took guts to do, but it was the right thing to do. You can't hide it forever!!! Another thing, don't EVER think that you are "broken" because you are NOT. You are just the way you were meant to be. You were meant to be a woman, but you somehow accidentally got that Y-chromosome that sort of messed things up. Also people, try to be more open-minded. She didn't have a choice in this, she was born this way. You may not agree with it, but it happened and so be it. It is not wrong that she is transsexual, she has every right to be. Again, I'm proud of you! It takes a strong person to come out as transsexual, since it's not something you hear about as much. Good job. (Sorry for such a long reply.)
