star trek:into darkness (WARNING: SPOILERS as of 4/23/13)

I'm going to watch it, and enjoy it because it's Star Trek.

Seen it. Much as I expected. Not terribly impressed.

Ugly, noisy filmmaking for the ADD generation. Derivative and devoid of any tension, pathos or intelligence.

I really don't like the portrayals of any of the main characters, Pine's Kirk in particular. The arrogant, petulant know-it-all act is completely out of synch with his supposed stature. Other characters, like Pine, keep saying how brilliant he is but it is based on nothing.

I liked Cumberbatch as Khan, but I didn't feel that he got to unleash properly. The anti-revenge message was good. The subplot about looming war with Klingons was interesting and could be developed.

Lots of plotholes again, but not as many (that I noticed) as the previous film.
The arbitrary "we can/can't beam" thing pissed me off. Why did Spock go after Khan alone at the end rather than a security team? Why are Starfleets defenses non-existent? Why do they refreeze Khan at the end - did he have a trial, and is this the punishment? Why did Khan go to Kronos in the first place? Probably others that I'm not thinking of.

If it's up to par with ST09, I'll probably like it all right.
As long as they never again sink into Insurrection/Nemesis level of shit, I'm good.

Meh. It's probably not even "on a par". The best bits of ST09 - including the opening with the Kelvin, which I though was excellent - are probably better than anything in this.

The worst bits (the shameless rip-off of the TWOK death scene) are about the same as the worst bits in ST09 (promotion of cadets to the flagship). Less slapstick humour though - which is positive.

All very meh.

I guess that's the difference between us. I figure the majority of people aren't any more ignorant lemmings than they are evil monkeys. Out of those 90% that are liking it, it's probably a fair bet that a proportionate number of them went in with a previous interest in Trek. Their reactions are a reasonable guage to the quality of the movie. Sucks that you didn't like it, but you weren't expecting to, so I daresay you got your money's worth.

And aren't you like 26 or something? Y'know, the centre of the Generation:Ritalin demographic. Sure sound like it being this in love with your self perceived superior intellect...(and yes, I'm laughing at it).

I'm 31. "Quality" is a matter of opinion, it is not something that is decided by popular vote. I didn't hate it, but I didn't much like it, so I'll say so and I'll say why. I'm not going to hide that and greedily lap up whatever pop culture throws at me just so that I can fit in and avoid being seen as superior.

If you love it, good for you.

indeed. and yet that doesn't account at all for the rating as related to that of (well received) IM3 given they would ostensibly appeal to much the same segment of the viewing public.

don't worry, you'll be the only one with that misperception of yourself.

I don't think a film's quality can be decided upon individually or by consensus so much as it's qualities can be recognized and acknowledged. The only decision is if those qualities appeal to you and how you respond.

I'm not sure why you're trying to make this personal. I didn't like a film. Deal with it.

Nothing personal so much as tired of the "people are ignorant lemmings" attitudes pose in general. not jsut yours...

I didn't say that everyone was an ignorant lemming, or even everyone who likes this movie.

But it is an objective fact that popular culture, including movies, has drifted toward the quick-cutting, instant satisfaction, hyperactive variety typified by recent Hollywood blockbusters, which Star Trek and its sequel are among.
And it is also an objective fact that most people lap it up, that there is a strong correlation between what is popular and what is marketed.

There shouldn't be any controversy about what I said.

It's not the dislike of the film, it's the "superior" attitude.

I detest a wide range of modern media and the Cowelisation of popular culture, I do not, however, regard myself as superior because I like different things.

You may wish to turn down the inner Niles Crane, it's not very becoming.

You've hit upon what is so annoying with many of the JJTrek bashers. They don't simply say, "didn't like it, not my cup of tea." Instead they try to argue that nobody should like it unless they are stupid.

What if that is what they believe?

After a day of using my brain, the very last thing I want to do is think.

My recorder is filled with things I'll watch during one of my month plus sabbaticals when I can spend the day monged out and willing to exercise my brain.

Rest of the time? 'Splosions, witty lines and loud music tweaks my pleasure centres whilst the rest of the old cerebellum dozes off.

Yeah, I'll take some of the stuff for the lemmings.

I've mused in the past on media dumbing down matching the increase in daily information overload we now have. The ones I can't stand are those who watch that stuff without exercising their brain at all. They're pretty lemming like, but they're also not the mass market.

It says an awful lot about them, and nothing good.

Mostly projection. I did not claim to be superior. This is a cultural issue and I'm affected by it too.

I watch too much of this shit when I know I shouldn't. I know lots of other less commercial stuff that I enjoy more, but I'm carried along with the crowd. And (while I read a bit) I can't sit down to read something like Moby Dick or Les Mis because it requires an attention span that has been knocked out of me by the quick fix of modern life.
Throwaway action flicks are one facet. Mind-numbing reality TV is another. I daresay we'd all come across as condascending if we started discussing Geordie Shore or Next Top Model. But self-awareness isn't superiority, and people shouldn't be so insecure.

I will not claim that people (including myself) who prefer the original series Star Trek and things like it are superior.

What I have argued was that back in the day, most fans of Star Trek seemed to simply take the show a lot more seriously than fans of modern Star Trek do.

To most modern Star Trek fans it seems to be simply "entertainment" or "fun". But to me it was a lot about the whole of seeing a future where technology had made so many contemporary problems go away and the world better.

If NuTrek is fast food, then Michael-fucking-Bay movies are downing a whole bottle of Karo syrup while smoking a whole box of cheap cigars.

Perhaps you're right.

But why do people CONSTANTLY defend the Abramsverse movies by pointing to various deficiencies in OTHER movies?

that has NEVER been considered a legitimate debate tactic whether in a classroom or a courtroom.

I'm a self-confessed snob about such things, and I don't get accused of being superior.

I get asked if I watch reality TV and I'm perfectly happy to tell the person I just think such shows are shit and not for me, but still show an interest in their enjoyment of it.

Then choose not to. I've never followed the crowd, yet still manage to have a social life that's pleasantly busy and a wide selection of friends from pretty much every walk of life - but then I run a geek group and work away from home a lot.

This is why I enjoy bathing - hat water, bubbles, a glass of beer and a good book and the modern world can go take a flying fuck.

Just wish my Kindle was waterproof...

And are you sure it's the "quick fix of modern life" or a knackered brain from working? After juggling emails, writing code, designing databases, talking to local government apparatchiks or trying not to punch a suit from somewhere like KPMG the very last thing I want to engage is my brain, it's had 8 hours of a workout.

Have I not explained this once before?

They're not defending the movie per se, they're highlighting the inconsistency of liking Movie A with General Flaw X and at the same time condemning Movie B for the same General Flaw.

By all means point out the plot holes, but if you hate the movie for those holes alone then prepare to jettison pretty much every movie ever made from your enjoyment centres.

Unless the Enterprise turns into an electric car half way though, with no explanations, and the cast are all replaced by the 1960's East German shot putt team 20 minutes in, all the action sequences are done by Trey and Parker South Park style and in the finale Khan becomes a sweet transvestite from transsexual Transylvania I'm fairly sure STiD will be no more error strewn than the rest of the Trek movie collection.

Although to be fair, I'd probably enjoy that too.

Because you'd go crying to the mods if we pointed out your deficiencies instead.

Oh, very well, NuTrek is transcendent, and reverses tumors.

Happy?

I wish I knew more geeks.

My job is moderately taxing on my brain, but it's not nuclear physics so I don't think so. I'm trying to condition myself, with some progress. Watching JJTrek and the like doesn't help.

Um, I've only specifically pointed out the deficiencies of other Star Trek movies. Might have something to do with comparing apples to apples, rather than pomegranates... How is citing a relevant precedent not legitimate debate?

Eh. I'm still looking forward to seeing it. I expect to be entertained. I don't expect it to change my life. It's just a movie.

I won't deny that Star Trek has had an impact on my life. I remember watching reruns of the original series late night with my dad... I was probably 3 or 4 at the time.

I remember watching Star Trek IV in the theatre... probably the first movie I ever watched in the theatre.

I remember obsessively watching the later seasons of TNG and nearly all of DS9. When I first got on the internet, the Trek bulletin boards on AOL were among the first places I visited (looking for First Contact and DS9 spoilers) That led me to Jammer's Trek review site... and from there to TrekBBS (around 2000 or so)... and then to this place.

Heck. On some deeper level, I'm sure that growing up watching the doctors on Star Trek (McCoy, Crusher, Bashir) has had some effect on the way I treat my patients and the way I conduct myself at work.

Despite all that, I recognize that Star Trek is just another form of entertainment. Sometimes it went for the deep stuff that really made you think but usually it was just something fun to watch.

nuTrek was fun. It was probably the first new Trek product I enjoyed since DS9 ended. It didn't blow me away and I recognize its flaws... but for me it was more enjoyable than Insurrection, Nemesis, Enterprise and most of the later years of Voyager. It was the first Trek to get me excited in a very long time.

It's not much like the Trek I remember growing up with, but who cares? Change is inevitable. I still have all the old stuff on DVD if I want to watch it. (Did y'all check out my TNG Review Thread? )Haven't watched the other Trek movies in a while, but this is my ranking:

1. The Wrath Of Kahn
2. The Search For Spock
3. The Voyage Home
4. The Undiscovered Country
5. First Contact
6. Generations
7. The Motion Picture
8. Star Trek (2009)
9. The Final Frontier

Those are the ones I own on DVD and the ones I can get some actual enjoyment from watching.

The other two (Insurrection and Nemesis) are pretty fucking awful and I have no interest in owning them or watching them again.

Star Trek V just barely makes the cut. The McCoy scene almost makes up for the rest of the movie. And Kirk has some great lines. "I need my pain!" and of course "What does God need with a starship?" I try to forget about the awful campfire singing and the crap special effects.

There are some who feel that Abrams' product isn't an apple but rather a pomegranate painted red and thrown in the apple basket.

perhaps,

but those type of folk tended to be on a school bus so short it was a yellow rollerskate.