FEARRRRRR!!!!

We don't need trade agreements, and as long as subsidies exist, trade ain't free. Oh, and define family farm. Most of those large evil agribusinesses we love to throw under the bus ARE FAMILY FARMS.

Then let them succeed without subsidization. Don't you get it? Government mandates always come with unintended consquences, whether it's corn, or grass or butterfly wings, the ramifications will be no doubt disastrous and unpredictable. See the latest government inspired financial crisis if you have any doubt.

Sorry, history says otherwise. We have countless examples of bureaucracy run amok, and leading to all sorts of problems, but still we're told we just need better meddlers.

So buying assets that depreciate over a relatively short time is preferable to saving for retirement, or investing in Littleflow's education? Neither of which can reduce a tax bill like a well placed tractor purchase, sad eh?

Oh, and nice admission that US tax policy is a de facto subsidy of American industry.

Trying speaking your mind in any of history's most tyrannical regimes. (Restrictive gun controllers, all of them)

Out of rep, 'flow, great post.

I love it when the lefties create a thread to circle jerk in. What a ridiculous original post. FEARRRRRRR!!!! You gotta be fuckin' kidding me. As if there aren't millions of retarded lefties all over the world who are terrified that McCain will incite WWIII while giving away state secrets to Israel and plunging the world economy into a new Dark Age.

And another thing: I'm so happy to see lefties getting technical with the definition of socialism. Maybe one day they'll get to work on fascism.

Well, from that perspective, your concerns become even less about Obama qua Obama, and more about the two major political parties. So would it be fair to assume a McCain presidency would concern you equally?

Put Littleflow's college money in a trust account in her name, and you won't be taxed on it. And I'm sure you can find ways of spreading your retirement monies around to limit their taxability.

Sometimes it is. Sometimes it's a reward for outsourcing. Not a simple issue.

And yet, that's not the case in THIS country. You may argue that the First Amendment is protected only because of the existence of the Second Amendment, but you won't convince me.

Can't answer the question? Or just won't?

Yeah, Canadian media.

Me personally? Pretty much none. I figure in the short term I may be marginally better off, it'd be pretty damned hard for me to be worse off other than in ways no government can control (i.e. disease, divorce, death)

As for the country, I'm not really fearful about that either, though I understand why it pleases you to assume so.

The negatives I see coming from liberal hegemony were always going to occur at some point, it's really no big deal if it's next year or five years from now or fifty.

Might as well get it over with.

All that said, I resent the implication of racism. it's one thing to attempt to twist the knife on those on the other side - they would surely do it to you.

It's quite another to make a charge like that. it's over the line, and uncalled for.

Ah, come on. You just had your four years. Let us have a little fun

EVERY right is guaranteed by the Second Amendment. Your implied argument is nonsensical. The First protects the peoples' right of free speech, including speech against the government. You are implying that the only protection for that right is . . . the government. That's not a freedom, that's an allowance. The freedoms laid out in the Constitution belong to the people, are exercised by the people, and ultimately guaranteed by the people.

To say nothing of the fascist theocracy Bush somehow never got around to setting up.

Of course, he still has three months to get it done.

I think the real fear is of the whole country becoming a Utopian society like Obama's home city of Chicago.

It would never occur to me to accuse you of any of those this in the OP (well, except maybe the bit about Palin ), but I'd invite you to read through the fear-mongering threads. It's all there.

And, of course, we take these things as seriously as we take the posters who spout them. Racism from JohnM and/or EP? The hell you say! OMFG, teh Socialisum!!!1!! from Archangel and KIRK? No, get out!

The goal here was to see if I could get some serious responses from some serious posters, and I have, in ways that exceeded my expectations.

So if the accusation doesn't apply to you, don't worry about it.

Yeah, because waving a gun solves everything.

My fear. Well... I'm a private person and I pretty much want to be ignored by the government. I can fuck up on my own without their help, thank you very much.
Plus government doesnt need to grow any more.
Other than that...

Being a weekend when I put work out of my head, I forgot all about how my job would be affected. I work in the defense industry for cryin' out loud! A democratic administration can have ill effects on us.

During the Reagan and Bush 1 years, we boomed. There was one year where we worked solid overtime for the entire spring.

During Clinton, we layed off hundreds, and sold off property to keep the company afloat. When I started working at ITT, it was a 72 acre campus with four large office buildings, one of which covered almost a million square feet, a historic mansion and an elegant executive clubhouse with a pool. By the end of the Clinton admin, we'd sold all the land except the million-square-foot building. Parking spaces went from roughtly 10,000 to a less than 1,000. What used to be vast expanses of parklike lawn is now a shopping center and a 600-condo subdivision.

During Bush 2 we've been on the rise, to the point where we literally don't have enough parking for the new hires and have to rent off-site parking with a shuttle bus! We've bought up other defense companies and expect to be the third largest defense contractor in the country.

Now, I freely admit W's military spending has been out of fucking control to say the least, but a democratic administration going the opposite direction could be a serious threat to my livlihood.

I pretty much feel the same way. But you make do with what's available.

Keep in mind who's making that statement.

I had wondered about the impact on your livelihood, between trickle-down from Wall Street and the potential shift in priorities with a Democratic administration.

This is the part where a Propertopian would lecture you on "natural trends in the economy," but all I'll say is, if they have to shrink your company, I hope it doesn't affect you.

Don't know if you've seen the attached, but it made me think of you.

When have I ever said otherwise? McCain has no principles, as he shown time and time again.

Obama does have principles, but they do not appear to be rooted in freedom and liberty, but in equality of outcome, social justice, and baseline nanny statism.

Criticism of the latter should not be seen as default support for the former.

McCain deals in reactionary politics of the moment. Response to some sort of food safety incident would see McCain appointees coming up with all sorts of misguided, ineffective regulations on the fly, exactly like the federal response to the current financial mess. Perhaps not as ideological, but as disastrous as any Obama response, guaranteed.

I'm sorry, are you changing the subject? Or are you just arguing with yourself again?

You were talking about the Second Amendment.

That's correct. He was not, however, saying that "waving a gun solves everything".

And you were spouting off some crap about waving guns around, which is not in my post or in the Second Amendment.

For whatever reason, you are hostile to the idea that the Second Amendment is an integral part of the Bill of Rights. That's fine. Just don't pretend that you're supporting your bias with logical thought.

Though waving a gun CAN solve a robbery.
Well, more like POINTING a gun can.

Nope. Just amused at its importance in some people's lives.

I bought a rifle last week. Remove the Second Amendment and I've committed a crime.

Seems pretty important to my life.

And yet it's completely immaterial to mine.

Except when some gun owner interprets my indifference to the subject as "You want to take away my guns!!!"

So in other words just like gay marriage, home schooling, and abortion to me.

Doesn't mean I don't vote to insure those freedoms for others though.

I wonder, if the Second Amendment guaranteed you the right to bear kumquats, would you defend it with such fervor?

But you're not indifferent. You're not amused. You're hostile. Your little gun waving comment is pretty typical of how you contribute to any thread where the topic comes up. It's really a perfect example. Someone tries to explain a concept to you and you jump right into the hysterical bullshit that is so exemplified by the extreme left. You flat out reject any notion that the Second Amendment could be important to someone for reasons other than paranoia, dick size, or gratuitous violence. You don't know and you don't want to know. The worst kind of ignorance.