I know I'm spamming the thread at this point, but one more thing... It occurs to me that Tywin Lannister genuinely likes Aryia. Either that or he suspects that she is a noble born northerner loyal to the Starks at least. Watching him speak to Jaimie, Sersi and Tyrion in the past, he's much more kind to Aryia than he was to them. With that said, I have a bold prediction, but I'm not seeking spoilers... Littlefinger recognized Aryia in Harrenhall. He's just the kind of guy to sit on that information until its advantageous for him to use it. We'll see.
I wonder if Balon was always planning to attack the North and had held back because Theon would have paid the price, or if he would have attacked anyways and didn't care about Theon. There was that scene in last week's episode where it seemed like despite his tough exterior, he cared about Theon's wellbeing and was a little sad that Theon was so hurt by being a hostage. Not as much as Ygritte wants him to be sucking...ba-dum-dum! You are excluding Craster's daughter-wives...but maybe if they were cleaned up it would be less gross. The Starks took pretty good care of her. I'd let her regulate the hell out of my workplace safety! I don't think that we have had a Tywin/Cersei scene yet in the show. I am fairly sure they don't interact up until this point in the books. Every indication we've had from the show is that Tywin loves Cersei unreservedly and vice versa. Tywin said Arya reminded him of Cersei, and Tyrion was talking about how it must be a new experience for Cersei to have disappointed Tywin (in her failure to control Joffrey). Tywin obviously hates much about Tyrion -- not just the fact that he's a dwarf, but as was recently mentioned that Tywin's wife died giving birth to Tyrion. To me, Tywin loves Jaime but Jaime is a disappointment in a major respect. Jaime is, as Tywin more or less pointed out, supremely gifted. He has tons of wealth, charm, good looks, and is among the best fighters in the Seven Kingdoms. Yet all he's done with these advantages is kick people's asses in tournaments and fuck Cersei. (I'm not sure if Tywin knows that last part, but figure that he must, especially at this point when Stannis put that on blast.) That's why Tywin had the "Come to the Seven" talk with Jaime last season about making the Lannister name get the respect it deserves. Much of the current war, it seems, is about getting Jaime back. Now whether that's out of love or the same "no one will fear us if they can do this to one of us" that he said about Tyrion is also unclear to me. I think that Arya has shown herself to be craftier than the average person, and in a time when his people are bungling everything, that makes Tywin genuinely pleased to see someone cut from the same cloth as himself.
Re: Tyrion/Cersei scene last night... At the end of it, is that what passes for a "tender moment" in the Lannister clan? Talk about awkward! Re: Daneryeus Is anyone else getting pissed off @ her character? I mean, why the FUCK is she in such a hurry? Her dragons are--to quote last night's episode--the size of house cats. It's gonna be awhile before she can use them to conquer anything. Also, if small dragons are the only thing of value that you possess... How the hell do you not keep then safe and well-guarded?!?
I can't explain why, but I have just lost interest in the show. There are three episodes sitting in my... electronic storage media ()... and I haven't watched them yet!
I was telling my wife last night that Tywin Lannister is obviously a character we're "not" supposed to root for, but I find myself liking him more and more.
That's pretty much the secret of the books, right there. Though not necessarily about Tywin. He isn't nearly this sympathetic in the books.
The best works if fiction do that... No one is truly good or evil but have their own desires and motivations. GoT is the best at that this far. Until Theon's ass flower went into full bloom, I kind of liked him too.
If there is any part of this show that I'd consider a let down this season it would be her story thus far without Khal Drogo. When she stepped out of those ashes buck naked with dragons swarming over her, I was so excited about this season, but so far.... meh.
I got a question about something that was said between John Snow and that wildling girl. She said something like his grand dad or great grad dad just decided one day to build a wall and claim one side was his. On the map at the intro to the show, I see The Wall looks like some natural mountain wall. Does it say anything in the books about someone building this? I always just assumed The Wall was always there, not something someone built.
Theon, the bastard! I want to know more about the backstory (building the wall, previous wars etc.) but I'm afraid that if I go looking, I'll find spoilers that I shouldn't.
A sense of entitlement that comes from having been told from when she was probably a toddler that the Iron Throne was her birthright, Westeros was her true home and she was denied it by the Usurper. The madness that is part of the Targaryen bloodline. Having a swelled head based on being first Khaleesi, and then the Mother of Dragons, and thinking that everything else will fall magically in place. It was great to have the Spice Merchant guy give her a reality check in the previous week's episode. Unfortunately, it didn't cause her to say, "You know, maybe I should figure out how to train and grow these dragons, or check on the existence of supporters to my claim in Westeros, etc. etc." Based on the scene from last night's episode where the Undying sorcerer simultaneously slit the throats of 12 of the 13, apparently got skewered by Jorah and yet disappeared without a puff of smoke, it's fairly clear that there was no defense her khalisar could have put up to safeguard against that. Yes, the lack of buck naked Dani is definitely a let down this season. I'll give some basic background to the Wall. Nothing super-spoilery, but I'll tag stuff just in case: Re: the Wall: With regard to previous wars, I don't really have much to add that wasn't alluded to in the TV show. In fact, the scene where Arya and Tywin are talking about how Aegon conquered with the help of his sisters is one that I don't remember from the books and think is a new creation.
Haven't read the books, but here's what I think: [spoilers] Thise bodies were planted by Osha, Hodor and Bran to get Theon to call off the search hounds.[/spoilers]
Holy shit, last night's episode was great. I'm actually starting to feel more sympathy for Tywin and Cersei Lannister than I did at this point in the books. The whole dynamic between Arya and Tywin is fantastic and I'm glad they've placed Tywin in charge of Harrenhal instead of who she was actually cupbearer for in the books (I honestly can't remember, some asshole with leeches...) The final two scenes were perfectly done and fuck Theon forever. You're both assuming Theon is actually in book five. He has really grown on me as a character compared to what he was in the first season/book. His whole Kingslayer rap is unfair at the very least. His speech in this latest episode explains how it's more complex than that.
So... What's up with The Hound? ... and Cersi? Openly acknowledging that Joffrey might very well be mad. Was that a promise from The Hound to protect Sansa from Joffrey? ... and both Cersi and Jamie openly acknowledging that Joffrey is their child? 3 episodes left and I get the feeling that Joffrey's days are numbered.
I like Tywin too. I'm not sure what he's like in the books but the character is played very well by Charles Dance, who is a great actor.
I like that Tywin for all his evilness still has that honorable streak. Like when he rode into that castle and put an end to the the captives being mistreated. I would love to see him giving Joffrey a harsh rebuke!
I'm doing a powerpoint right now that has to use the font "Calibri." Every time I select it I hear "Kaleesi" in my head. Once again, poisoned by pop culture!
Tywin and the Hound are my favourite characters at this point. Charles Dance is a fantastic actor and people should check out his other work.
Charles Dance is the reason Tywin is likeable in the show vs the books. He really isn't doing anything different in the show. They've told us some of the cold, underhanded, and downright cruel behavior he's exhibited in multiple episodes. The difference is that in the book, Charles Dance isn't jumping out of the pages and owning every scene.
Disagree - his relationship with Arya is what is humanizing him in large measure. And in the books, that didn't exist. Some of it is the actor, to be certain, but we never see a charitable or honorable side of Tywin in the books, only the calculating bastard. At least, that is my recollection.
To be fair, we've also seen a lot more of him in the show. He was very much a background character by this point in the books (and especially in the first book).
Tywin didn't stop the mistreatment out of honor. He did it because it was wasteful to kill able-bodied people who he could press into service of the war effort. In one of the more recent episodes he basically chastises the Mountain for being too much of a wuss and not burning peasants out.
While he's in the middle of hanging dozens of his own men on the pretext that one of them tried to kill him.
