Have a Chance to Buy a 10mm Kimber

One of these is on consignment at a local gun store. It's in great shape. No gouging on the frame. It's a 10mm. I love that caliber.

Come with two mags, two sets of sights. No leather or anything extra.

In your opinion, what would be fair to give for it? It's been there for three months and I think I can get a real steal.

Since MSRP is around $1100 and this one's used, I'd offer $550.

Much as I like the 10mm however (and I have a Glock G20 in that caliber), the ammo selection is limited and expensive; if I had it to do all over again, I'd buy the G21 (.45 ACP) model instead...

You don't think the superior ballistics make it totally 100% worth it?

Ballistics has never been the problem with the 10mm. Economics is.

For defensive purposes, you're better off with something that you can affordably shoot much more often. If you can bankroll shooting a lot of 10mm, it's a round with a lot of potential.

Exactly. Unless you get into reloading, there is no economical way to train with a 10mm. My cost for a 50 round box of 230gr .45ACP training ammo or 155gr .40S&W training ammo is $8.00. My cost for a 50 round box of 180gr 10mm training ammo is $19.00.

Elwood, if ammo cost was no concern, what would you trust your life to?

What I carry every day already. 230gr .45ACP +P Federal HST.

For someone who's not in LE?

^I defer to the sheriff on best choice for defensive loads. And that particular Federal load is said to be very effective.

I don't know that hotter is necessarily better. If it were, everyone would carry a .500 S&W Magnum. But you need a good balance of stopping power and firepower (as well as, perhaps, concealability, accuracy, controllability, weight, size, etc.).

A .460 Weatherby Magnum rifle is a very good manstopper, but if you miss, it's a bit slow for a follow-up shot. A .22 rimfire with a 100 round magazine gives you lots of opportunities to hit a target, but no single hit is likely to stop a determined aggressor.

I think the two predominant choices today (a high-cap 9mm or a standard cap .45ACP) reflect the reasonable extremes of both cases: the wondernines have great firepower but are at the low end of reliable stopping power, the .45 great stopping power but lesser firepower. The .40S&W is for those who can't make up their minds and want an even balance.

Is that load Law Enforcement Only?

You can buy it, but it is made by Federal as a LE only load. My primary carry gun is a Kimber Tactical Pro II. It's .45. I'm just worried about liability from a crazy trial lawyer if I use an "LE Only" load, ya know?

It is not illegal in any way, shape, form, or fashion to buy, sell, or possess those cartridges.

Federal, made a choice as a company to only sell certain quantities of ammunition to Law Enforcement. Take the classic Hydra-Shok. For civilian sale, it's only available in 20 round boxes. However, using my credentials and buying from a certified Law Enforcement dealer, I can buy the same cartridges in 50 round boxes. It's the exact same product in every detail, but the quantity is different and my box is stamped "For Law Enforcement Sale Only."

So, yes, that particular part number is LE only because that part number is for the 50 round box.

I can't buy HST's at any store I know of. Right now I carry Golden Sabers or Hyrdra Shocks.

I mean, I'd love to have a really hot .45.

Streichers

That's more than double what I pay for it, but if you want it bad enough.

Well dadgum it, I should just buy all my ammo from you.

Dan Wesson CBob in 10mm or a DW Razorback are both beautiful pistols.

A lawyer would have a hard time in that situation. You are using the same rounds that police officers use. If it is good enough for them it is good for the civilian.

I like to read those type of stories in the various gun mags I get about how lawyers go out of their way to inflate the evils of guns and ammo.

I read one article where the prosecutor went after the guy because he used JHP . The guys lawyer failed to ask the police what rounds they carried which of course for every department in the country that I know of is JHP. He got convicted.

I plan to call Mayood Asoob (sp?) if something should ever happen to me.

You know, if this gun is still here in a month, I'm gonna buy it. I want to use it to hunt.

Lawyers will glom onto what ever they think they can convince a jury is relevant. In Tennessee, when you take your ccw class, they keep a record of the make, model, and caliber of the gun you did the practical with....I have no idea why. It's not like you're limited to carrying that particular gun or anything.

If you ever needed to use some other firearm in self defense, and then were sued, even money says that their lawyer would make a huge deal about how you recklessly used a gun that you weren't even "qualified" to shoot.

That's why I return to the range and "qualify" with every handgun I own. It sucks... it's 50 bucks, but I think of it as an insurance.

I'm even thinking of "qualifying"with my AR-15.

I just wish these shmucks that practice law would realize that a gun is a lethal device, and you're either justified or unjustified in using it.

I just ordered some of that there law enforcement ammyurnishyun. I hope it gets here soon.

Yes?

Well, I got some of dat dere ammo. I have 33 rounds of it on my person now. I like that extra velocity, me thinks.


I still want a 10mm. Double tap makes some... impressiv elooking ammo.

Man, what happened to JCD?

I know! I haven't seen him around forever.

Fuck that noise. The only 'documentation' I ever presented for a CCW was my DD-214. You know how much firearms training a naval aviator gets?

NONE.

Now I did get some in the Navy, but I had to seek it out on my own, and what I got was pretty rudimentary. Almost everything I know now has been researched, self-taught, and self-trained. Hell, I've learned far more about firearms and shooting right here on WF than I ever learned in the Navy. Kinda scary when you think about it, but I do take the responsibility aspect of firearms ownership seriously and have gone out of my way to learn proper gun safety and get myself proficient.

So the notion of some idiot tracking what I shoot at the range for proficiency purposes is kind of laughable. A lot of the shooting I've done hasn't even been at the range. Sounds like TN has some strange laws for a 'gun friendly' state.

It's not a law thing, it's a civil liability thing.

Does your state protect you civilly if you are justified in the eyes of the criminal courts in using a weapon for self-defense? No? Then you'd better cover your bases before Frechunulianita's big brother Kimbabwonata breaks in your house, gets his head blown off by you in self defense - at which time Frechunulianita sues you for everything you own, wins because a trial lawyer smelled money and smooth talked the jury into believing you were a crazed killer underqualified on the gun you were using, and takes what you own.

I mean, I know you like Frechunulianita, but do you want her to have everything you own?

Can't speak for TN, but that prolly ain't gonna happen in Idaho, bro. Everything's all white up here.

Plus, I'm well versed in the standard responses/ tricks.

It's your family, bro. I hear what you're saying, but why not play it as safe as possible?