Marvel TV Universe

Discussion in 'Media Central' started by Diacanu, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    25,588
    Location:
    On the train
    Ratings:
    +19,720
    I'm definitely aware that women can and do act in ways that are exactly the same in which they bitch about men behaving. And, yes, men have as much right to behave and complain and bitch just like any other human and all deserve the right to have their grievances heard and accepted as valid and not shamed for it.

    That being said, having women in positions of power and influence may have been 'always' in your experience, but I assure you, less that 40 years ago, that wasn't even a pipe dream for most women. So, maybe they just need a bit of time to get out of the mindset in which they came into the workplace.
  2. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    13,021
    Ratings:
    +10,926
    Shooting Banner-as-Hulk who is damned near-invulnerable is one thing. Shooting him when he's puny Banner and actually killable would be easy enough to do and yet no one does it. The real world reason is "Because there wouldn't be a comic any more." But with the universe of the Hulk, there's not really a good reason why the forces arrayed against Hulk and willing to kill him don't simply do so when he is Banner.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,429
    Ratings:
    +82,264
    I've got a thick graphic novel of the first issues, and one time he caught a bullet to the head in mid-transformation, and it put Hulk into a deep near-death coma.
    Course, The Leader had a magic machine that de-replicated the bullet out.
    Cuz plot armor.
    But, it does point to, Banner is the weak spot.
  4. Uncle Albert

    Uncle Albert Part beard. Part machine.

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    60,757
    Location:
    'twixt my nethers
    Ratings:
    +27,677
    I swear there was a line on screen about how he tried to eat a bullet, but the "other guy" spit it out.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  5. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    13,021
    Ratings:
    +10,926
    Yes, from the Avengers movie.

    But that's different from what I'm talking about. Hulk was aware of the threat to Banner and could Hulk out in time to save them both.

    In the comics, it would be pretty easy to catch Banner unaware and kill him while he's vulnerable. Numerous weapons of conventional means -- sniper rifles, poison in liquid or gas form, explosions -- could all do the job of killing Bruce before he Hulks out. Add in powers and it's even easier.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    30,538
    Ratings:
    +34,035
    point of order:

    my always covers about the same era as yours... including about a 40 year work history.

    although "getting out of a mindset" sounds a tad vindictive for upper management, non? We're not talking about the last boomers, but the late gen x/millennial cohort.

    still, I get it. things don't get mixed evenly if simply set level. They have to be shaken a bit as part of the process.

    at the risk of being snipey here, take a look at that second part of what you wrote and consider how it's exactly the sort of dismissiveness.
  7. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    25,588
    Location:
    On the train
    Ratings:
    +19,720
    You're absolutely correct. I apologize though, I did not intend to sound dismissive. You definitely should be free to express your grievances without fear of ... anything, let alone being dismissed. and if your female boss dismisses your grievances because that's what was done to her, then she is absolutely, definitely in the wrong.

    My whole point was just that men have always been able to express their emotions in the workplace and women have always been told we can't work in the workplace because we're too emotional.
    • Thank You! Thank You! x 1
  8. Spaceturkey

    Spaceturkey i can see my house

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    Messages:
    30,538
    Ratings:
    +34,035
    'sall good... it has only been in the latter half of that 4 decades that the ceiling has at least risen and become broader to cover more fields. A lot less since we've even started acknowledging "casual" touching and "friendly banter" as being somewhere between awkward and predatory in the workplace, let alone everywhere else.

    That might be it though, that emotional health conditions (work or otherwise) are often dismissed or used to undermine rather than supported, no matter who is expressing them to whom? Definitely payback paid forward is a shitty human quality.

    (mods-maybe split this off as "civilized discussion of gender perceptions" or something?)
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,024
    Ratings:
    +47,879
    Yup, and there's at least one alt-future comic where Banner dies but Hulk keeps on living so long as he doesn't change back.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk:_The_End

    I think the issue with that is the Hulks extremely powerful regenerative abilities, which put both Wolverine and Deadpool to shame. (Comics Wolverine has regenerated an entire new body from a single cell, and from just his adamantium skeleton.) Unless you destroy every single cell of Banner instantaneously, Hulk is gonna take over and regenerate in response to it. :async:
  10. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,130
    Ratings:
    +37,383
    Simply adds an aspect to the discussion, doesn't replace or supersede the cis woman's assertion. There's no implicit mansplaining here unless you want to see it.
  11. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    25,588
    Location:
    On the train
    Ratings:
    +19,720
    As I said, it wasn’t the article, it was the opening statement. And now your last statement. But, that’s all I’ll say on the matter since you will come back once again and tell me how wrong I am. Just like a man.
  12. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,727
    Ratings:
    +31,716
    Second episode was a little better. I was surprised they got Tim Roth back.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,315
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +155,774
    He's been playing the character for 14 years now, so it's probably an easy paycheck for him, even if he's not contractually obligated to come back. And really, Roth could have sailed off into the sunset after doing Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, and he'd have a better legacy than 90% of the folks in Follywood.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,727
    Ratings:
    +31,716
    Roth has been playing the character for 14 years? I must have missed something.
  15. Diacanu

    Diacanu Comicmike. Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    101,429
    Ratings:
    +82,264
    Actors live in your TV, and every time you, I, or Tuckerfan watch "The Incredible Hulk" Tim Roth has to come out of his little Hobbit hole inside the TV, and play Abomination again, and again, and again.
    :diacanu:
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,315
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +155,774
    His first IMDB credit for that role is dated 2008.
  17. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,727
    Ratings:
    +31,716
    Yeah and I don’t believe we’ve seen him in a MCU movie since.
  18. Tuckerfan

    Tuckerfan BMF

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    77,315
    Location:
    Can't tell you, 'cause I'm undercover!
    Ratings:
    +155,774
    Shang Chi
  19. Nova

    Nova livin on the edge of the ledge Writer

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    49,130
    Ratings:
    +37,383
    Welll....THAT'S a choice for a rebuttal I guess.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,727
    Ratings:
    +31,716
    Okay, haven’t seen that yet.
  21. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,715
    We better get Awesome Andy on the Shulkie Show.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  22. Steal Your Face

    Steal Your Face Anti-Federalist

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Messages:
    47,727
    Ratings:
    +31,716
    So I was watching the Drinker’s take on She Hulk and instead of his usual bashing of the M She U he actually gave some constructive critical advice on how to make a better introduction of showing an empowered female protagonist.

    One thing he suggested was to to show some vulnerability in Jennifer by having Bruce be the one to save her in the car wreck and because her injuries would be life threatening, he would have to give a her a transfusion to save her life. Of course that would come with the cost of turning her into a Hulk and it would cause conflict between her and Bruce and Bruce would probably feel bad for this.


    This would create drama and tension between the two while having some conflict resolution between the two. Bruce would have to step into a mentor role kind of like Tony did with Peter.


    As it turns out, this is exactly what her origin is in the comics.:facepalm:


    For anyone interested (which is nobody because we’re not allowed to criticize female protagonists), here’s the video. He brings up other points such as why not show Jennifer getting cat called and barely being able to control her rage rather than telling us this? Or why not show men disrespecting her in her law office and mansplaining things rather than tell us?
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
    • Facepalm Facepalm x 1
  23. 14thDoctor

    14thDoctor Oi

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    31,024
    Ratings:
    +47,879
    One imagines Bruce might consider death preferable to living as a Hulk.
    Did this YouTuber of yours watch the show? Because they showed both of those things in addition to discussing them.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  24. matthunter

    matthunter Ice Bear

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Messages:
    26,972
    Location:
    Bottom of the bearstack, top of the world
    Ratings:
    +48,715
    Bruce not wanting to curse anyone by turning them into a Hulk (even if he had any inkling his blood would save her instead of just kill her) is PRECISELY why the showrunners changed the origin to the car wreck from the transfusion.

    FF's Font Of Wisdom is hardly a decent critic if he hasn't seen the dozen articles on this very topic put out around the first episode.

    And no, it doesn't make Jen a better character needing a man to save her life. That's MRA crap and fuck you for parroting it.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
  25. Jenee

    Jenee Driver 8

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    25,588
    Location:
    On the train
    Ratings:
    +19,720
    You and the Drinker need to do a bit of research before posting.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  26. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,303
    Ratings:
    +22,415
    I kind of thought the 2nd one was... meh? I was really enjoying it as a setup episode with the return of Abomination, and I was kind of into Jen having to represent him. But it appears that is already over... Maybe they'll go into the underground fighting ring next, and we'll get more Titania there.

    I still don't know what the story the show wants to tell.

    If it's just Seinfeld with a 7 foot tall green lady I'm sure many will appreciate that, but I won't be one of them. Never cared for the non-show show.
  27. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    13,021
    Ratings:
    +10,926
    Why would her representation of the Abomination be over? It's just gotten more complicated by the fact that after talking about how he's a changed man there is video proof that he's escaped and Abom-ed out. He's still vying for parole, and now Jen has the task of repping him against the backdrop of the ethical conflict AND him having done the exact wrong thing for a client to do.

    The appropriate reference would be Ally McBeal or Boston Legal rather than Seinfeld. This isn't a show about nothing. It is, as Jen said when she was breaking the fourth wall, a lawyer show. Albeit with a 7 foot tall green lady.
  28. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    13,021
    Ratings:
    +10,926
    I hope you are trolling.

    Because people can and do criticize female protagonists all the time. It's just better if a) the criticism has some logic behind it as to the actual character as opposed to "woke Hollywood" or that sort of nonsense and b) the criticism isn't mindlessly parroting things.

    You claimed to watch the first episode, so you should know that the show explicitly demonstrated Jen's first Hulking out taking place after being sexually harassed at a bar, and that her male colleague tried to steal the closing to her case (one of the plum assignments) out of apparent disrespect.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  29. Demiurge

    Demiurge Goodbye and Hello, as always.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,303
    Ratings:
    +22,415
    Well, first he'll have to actually you know be brought back into custody. :D
  30. Raoul the Red Shirt

    Raoul the Red Shirt Professional bullseye

    Joined:
    May 3, 2004
    Messages:
    13,021
    Ratings:
    +10,926
    At a guess, either Wong brings him back into custody or there's going to be a plot where Jen tries to bring him back by investigating the fight club. But whatever the mechanism, I'd say it's pretty clear that Jen's still going to be repping the Abomination for the rest of this season.