Mrs. Obama: FINALLY Proud of Her Country?

Then you think wrong.

In other words, not at all.

Gotcha.

I'd call much ado about nothing, though it's beyond stupid to equate the two.

Are you really making an attempt to equate a traffic accident the occurred 14 years before Laura Welch met George Bush with statements that Michelle Obama made on the campaign trail with her husband?

Yes, Laura Welch was involved in an accident which killed another student. No, no charges were filled. While the two had dated in the past, no, it wasn't her current fiance. And there was no sign of drinking or drugs involved in the accident.

Hell, even if she was charged, the outcome wouldn't be legally available to the public because she was still a minor. She had been driving a grand total of three months when the accident happened.

Michelle Obama's statements right now are relevant.

Laura Welch's actions when she was 17, not so much.

Unless you are one of those paranoid whackjobs that think Laura Welch intentionally murdered her classmate, despite not a speck of proof.

^You've just proved my point for me.

Hmmm, this seems to have riled the faithful.


My two cents? A lot to do about nothing, I'm sure she wishes she hadn't put it that way.

But on the other hand, this is something she said, during the active campaign of her husband. So it's not some dredged up, manufactured story.

And given that a former "candidate spouse" is now a leading contender for the office, who knows what relevance her words may have at some later date?

Love watching you yanks get you're knickers in such a twist over the littlest bit of shit.

I don't consider an accident when the person was a minor a relevant issue thirty years later.

I do consider the words of a person being sent to stump for her husband's campaign RIGHT NOW as relevant.

Personally I don't find them that big a deal either.

But to say Laura Welch's car accident in 1963 proves something about her nature or character is the height of delusion. Especially when no fault was found, and she was a minor when it happened.

Michelle Obama's words on the other hand are indicative, especially when she's officially acting as a spokesperson for her husband. That's the context of the political rally she was attending.

If you can't see the difference in context, then I have to question your intelligence.

I agree. I'm Republican, and I just can't...make...myself...care. Not one bit.

I mean, really, who gives a shit? Are we gonna start quizzing everyone related to a potential president on how patriotic they are? Shall we see if John McCain's daughter has ever said anything negative about this country?

Honestly, I'm not sure I know what people think this comment even represents. Do they think it means Obama secretly plans to turn this country over to the Canadians or something? Why do we care?

It doesn't make one bit of sense to me.

Amazing, aren't they? They've tried so hard to dig up some dirt on this guy, and the best they can come up with is "B-but his wife said something that we're going to interpret the wrong way! If he can't control his woman, how can he run the country?"

Agreed, and you had rep coming until you veered off into "but...", territory.


No "but...", about it, who cares?

And watching you guys try SO HARD to pretzel them into something they're not is even more fun.

Actually, the only reason I posted in this thread is to point out yet another dumbshit thing being typed out on your keyboard.

Notice until you decided to equate a teen's car accident with a woman as a relevant issue compared to the statements of a woman stumping for her husband for political office I had no dog in this hunt. It was poor wording by Michelle Obama, it isn't a big deal at this point, but certainly her views about the country are relevant.

But saying it's like Laura Welch's car accident?

That's just phenomenally stupid.

^Great technique you've got there. "You don't agree with me, so you're stupid."

Work for you IRL?

It has it's moments.

At least I don't play the part of the hypocrite.

How many people have you ridiculed in this thread?

Does mockery work for you IRL?

Too many people here know your schtick, Garamet. You are just as nasty as everyone else, you just pretend like no one else notices.

Good for you. Although you need to know that "disagree with Demiurge" doesn't = "hypocrite."

Except on Wordforge.

Only you and KIRK. There's a pattern there...

No need to. The people I meet IRL are not nearly as nasty as the folks I meet here.

Link, please? I stand by everything I post. I'd appreciate it if you could point to a single instance where I hit first.

The fact that you've decided to make this thread about me and not Michelle Obama says much.

Cindy McCain reminds me of Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep in Death Become Her...she looks like she's been shellacked.

I bitch about it more than most, but compared to the rest of mankind's endeavors, we're easily leading the list.

An American citizen was arrested inside the United States and imprisoned for nearly two years before talking to a lawyer and over three before charges were even laid.

And if you think the courts put a stop to any of this think again. Padilla got his day in court because the Bush administration wanted to avoid a ruling stating it was violating the constitution. Up until that point our beloved system of judicial checks and balances hemmed and hawed on technicalities.

So how did the government manage a proper trial with Ramzi Yousef who was 100x the catch of Padilla?

Are we extending this hypothesis to the Second Amendment? As long as the government tramples on someone else's rights I'm fine?

You understand that there is a Constitutional and historical precedent for suspending habeas corpus, yes?

I do know that.

What equals hypocrite is taking offense at the same shit you smilingly dole out to others.

Not even there.

Actually, you implied others were hypocrites if they refused to believe Laura Welch's car accident when she was a minor was the same thing as Michelle Obama having a senior moment while trying to get her husband elected.

You certainly mocked Paladin for actually taking the 'media report' of Michelle Obama's misstep seriously - which of course he actually saw, and then started talking about the 'librul MSM', mocking his intelligence.

I have to assume as a professional writer you understand when you are being insulting to others, but you always act surprised when your venom is returned in kind.

You are either obtuse or a liar. I know which one my money is on, but neither is particularly appealing.

Oh, I'm sure you'd get quite a bit more invective your way if you were as nasty to others IRL as you were here.

Cuts both ways.

This very thread. Speaking of senior moments. And I'm pretty sure Paladin didn't say boo to you, but you started treating him like he was brain dead.

Read it again.

Not really. I often call bullshit when I see it.

Meh, it's a non-issue to me. I mean I wasn't too proud of my country during the Clinton years either.

I'm proud of my next door neighbours garden!

But there isn't really one for suspending the fourth amendment.

All that illegal wiretapping, forced searches and stuff are nothing it not unreasonable and without specific cause. And for the record, Lincoln's suspension of habeas is generally considered the biggest blot on his brilliant record.

And no, I'm often not proud of this country. I do love it, but I'm not proud of the fact that we're an international pariah. I'm not proud that so many children go to sleep hungry every night. I'm not proud that so many hard-working people who gave all to their careers find themselves 50 and working at Starbucks. I'm not proud that greed and image is valued over substance and ideas.

So, I have to say: if you're proud of this country right now, you're not paying attention.

It's why I'm working to change things — to hand off a better country to my children than the lump of decaying shit handed to me when I turned 21.

What, exactly, are you doing to change things? What are your great plans?

Will no one go public with their pride in how adept America is at taxation? :flow2:

Well, I think it's only an issue if it becomes a recurring theme, something I doubt Obama's handlers will allow. It was definitely a misstep, but a minor one, and one that incenses Republicans quite a bit more than Democrats, so it shouldn't effect the primary much.

But Paladin got the implication right - if this is the first time she has ever been proud of her country, that's saying something.

The racial issues are simply race baiting - this is a woman who the doors for success were definitely open.

Hard to talk about the trials and tribulations you've faced when you are a Princeton and Harvard educated lawyer, married to a Senator who, oh by the way you were the superior to at the law office they both worked at when they met.

She's been listed on the Harvard Alumni Top 100 (58th), the 10 Best Dressed list, and the Essence Top 25 Inspiring Women of the World.

She may be cognizant of the problems affecting minorities, but she certainly hasn't lived those problems.

I'm proud of my country. It's not perfect, but that's different than saying it's irretrievably flawed.

Taking pride in your country is the type of thing that leads to it becoming a better place.

As far as being reviled by other countries, I honestly could give a flying fuck. They need to respect us and/or fear us, not like us.

I always refer to the words of Winston Churchill about issues like this:

Of course, Churchill would definitely be reviled by the same countries that revile the US if he were a politician today.

Just because she's successful doesn't mean she hasn't lived any problems affecting minorities. She could have succeeded despite those problems or her personal experience with them.

And even if she's somehow avoided every problem, she's certainly entitled to her view (if it were indeed her view) that the problems minorities have faced and continue to face in America are enough to make her not feel especially patriotic.

Of course everyone is entitled to their viewpoint. This is America, right?

However, when someone that has had the doors of privilege open wide for her like Michelle Obama has decides to lecture others about the problems associated with race, it has the same kind of lack of impact if Diacanu decided to make a point about working a job or having sex.

It's just very hard to take seriously.

Michelle's parents were solidly middle class. She went to a magnet school, and got into a scholarship to Princeton then Harvard.

She's the definition of the American dream, as well as Martin Luthor King's dream.