Netanyahu: Hitler didn't want to kill any Jews, the Holocaust was all the Palestinians fault.

http://gawker.com/israeli-prime-minister-okay-but-the-holocaust-wasnt-t-1737786407


Ugh.

...wow.

Bibi's insane. Though I'm sure there are a few in this forum who'll buy into his revisionist history.


Soma does.

The reflexive anti-Semites in the press will be out in full force, but the Times of Israel mentions:

The theory that Husseini played a role in the origin of the plan to commit genocide against the Jews has been raised by a number of historians including David Dalin and John Rothmann, but the notion has been rejected by a vast majority of Holocaust scholars.​

He was there, urging the Nazi leaders to burn the Jews. I'd say that's a role, even if the Nazis didn't need his input. But Netanyahu is correct in pointing out that extermination wasn't their original plan. Up through 1939 they'd been working to force all the Jews to leave. They continued with that as the plan up through the fall of 1941, and plans weren't settled until 1942. Hans Frank, Hitler's personal lawyer who was put in charge off affairs in Poland and who was executed for war crimes, had written:

As for the Jews, well, I can tell you quite frankly that one way or another we have to put an end to them. The Führer once put it this way: if the combined forces of Judaism should again succeed in unleashing a world war, that would mean the end of the Jews in Europe... At present I am involved in discussions aimed at having them moved away to the east. In January there is going to be an important meeting in Berlin to discuss this question.​

The Mufti was determined to kill them all, and told Himmler that he wanted to send the Jews in Palestine to Europe (knowing that the Germans had already exterminated 3 million of them), but Himmler wouldn't accept them. The Mufti also sent numerous letters of outrage every time a few hundred Jews managed to escape to his turf, urging officials in Hungary and elsewhere to make sure not to miss any.

Netanyahu's point with the speech was that the Palestinian leadership didn't start hating the Jews because of post-WW II events, they wanted all the Jews dead long before that.

And ^here's Bibi's biggest fan and most ardent apologist!

Lies as usual. The systematic killing of Jews started in June 41, with the Einsatzgruppen following on the heels of the front line troops during Barbarossa. By July we have the first known usage of Final Solution to the Jewish Question being used by Goring to describe the genocide. By the end of summer over 1 million Jews had been executed. By fall it was recognized that the gas trucks couldn't scale enough to deal with the numbers so construction was started on the death camps. Before the Grand Mufti's visit.

Nothing was decided in 1942. All that happened at Wannsee (January 1942) was that the other organs of government were informed of the Final Solution and ordered to help.

"Reflexive anti-Semites..."

I'm not a great fan of Bibi but his brother was one hell of a soldier.

Extremist nutbag in behaving like extremist nutbag shocker!

I know - let's give him more weapons!

Jimmy Carter obligated the United States to give Israel (and Egypt) weapons to get the Camp David Peace Accords signed.

Poor Bibi!


Germany: Muslim Isn't Responsible for Holocaust, We Are

Lies! Lies! All Jewish lies!

The Nazis were just getting started in the fall of 1941 in the east and it was an ad-hoc affair, as Nazi plans go. By November of 41 Einsatzgruppen B reported that they had killed a total of about 45,000 Jews.

And of course the Mufti had been writing to the German government long before he moved to Berlin.

The German consul general in Jerusalem earlier telegraphed Berlin:

The Mufti explained to me today at length that Muslims both within Palestine and without welcome the new regime in Germany and hope for the spread of fascist, anti-democratic forms of government to other countries. Current Jewish economic and political influence is harmful everywhere and has to be combated. In order to be able to hit the standard of living of Jews, Muslims are hoping for Germany to declare a boycott [of “Jewish” goods], which they would then enthusiastically join throughout the Muslim world.​

That was sent in March - of 1933.

This isn't the first time @gturner has been telling fibs about the Nazis...

Yeah, never liked the man, but this is a staggeringly new low.

No, certainly not (unless he's never discussed NAZIs before).

They're not fibs. A great deal has been written about the Mufti, such as this:

"In my opinion, the grand mufti, who has been in Berlin since 1941 played a role in the decision of the German government to exterminate the European Jews,the importance of which must not be disregarded. He had repeatedly suggested to the various authorities with whom he had been in contact, above all before Hitler, Ribbentrop and Himmler, the extermination of European Jewry. He considered this as a comfortable solution to the Palestinian problem. In is messages broadcast from Berlin, he surpassed us in anti-Jewish attacks. He was one of Eichmann’s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say that, accompanied by Eichmann. he has visited incognito the gas chamber in Auschwitz."​

That was an affidavit by Dieter von Wisliczeny, who was Adolf Eichmann's deputy. Dieter also reported that Eichmann wanted to send the Jews to Palestine, but the Mufti put a stop to the idea. Dieter reported that when questioned about it Eichmann said "I am a personal friend of the Grand Mufti. We have promised him that no European Jew would enter Palestine any more. Do you understand now?" Dieter was executed for war crimes. The Mufti wasn't put on trial.

Further, Eichmann had prepared a plan in 1938 to ship four million European Jews to Madagascar. In May of 1940 Himmler commented on the Madagascar plan, saying "However cruel and tragic each individual case may be, this method is still the mildest and best, if one rejects the Bolshevik method of physical extermination of a people out of inner conviction as un-German and impossible." The Nazi party adopted the Madagascar plan in August of 1940.

A Nazi official in 1946, facing likely execution, wrote an affidavit that tried to deflect blame away from himself? You don't say.

Yes, it's all Jewish lies.

Gturner is schooling you fools in this thread.

It's no surprise that the libtard media, which has spent years sympathizing with and enabling the pallies and their terror network hamas, would want to further discredit the notion that the pallies have ever been anything other than tragic victims of jewish oppression. Rickdeckard's anti-semitism is beyond disgusting.

Well, that's an interesting theory, flashy, though it has nothing to do with this thread.

It's the whole reason for the liberal press reaction to what Netanyahu said. They've been conditioned to view Jews as evil occupiers and Palestinians as innocent victims. Yet it was a major Palestinian leader who egged on the Holocaust and helped supervise it.

He'd also earlier been one of the main drivers behind violent anti-Jewish activities in Jerusalem and elsewhere, assassinating Arabs who wanted to work in cooperation with Jews to build a better future, even having Palestinians executed for now wearing traditional Arab clothing. In the Arab world there have always been moderates and reformers, and backwards genocidal religious fanatics who are willing to kill anyone and everyone. The Mufti was one of the latter, and unfortunately wielded a huge amount of influence and to a large extent determined the course of subsequent events.

But the Palestinian's pro-Nazi history would conflict with the left's narrative about Palestinians, or the wider narrative that Arabs only started hating Jews after losing Israel's foundation wars. That isn't true either. Many Arabs supported Rommel's Africa corps wholeheartedly because they though he would make it into Palestine and eliminate the Jews. Rommel couldn't make much use of such support because the Arabs were so poorly armed and trained, and in any event he personally wasn't anti-Semitic and was disturbed by what he was hearing was happening back in Germany.

His Nazi sympathies can be seen in his . Or he's trying to impress Soma, who's trying to impress him.

There are a couple of different issues here.

Was the Arab world deeply anti-Semitic even before the establishment of Israel? Yes, absolutely. When Hitler met with Mufti al-Husseini in 1941, it was clear that they were natural allies. They had three common enemies: the British, the Communists, and the Jews. (And Hitler regarded the Jews as controlling the other two.)

The Times of Israel has reprinted the Nazi government's record of their 1941 meeting here: http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-official-record-what-the-mufti-said-to-hitler/

They also had common cause over the idea of a Jewish homeland; the Arabs hated it because it would be carved out of their land, and Hitler hated it because he felt that it would be a power center for Jewish influence on the world.

However, while they were allies and while Nazi policy on Jews did change over time, there does not appear to be any evidence that the Nazi would have been perfectly fine with shipping the Jews somewhere else, but then the Mufti said "No, kill them all," and Hitler said "Gosh, Mr. Mufti, you're right, let's gas 'em instead!"

Don't get me wrong; they were both genodical shitbags. But World War II scholarship hasn't exactly been in short supply, and with the exception of an affidavit by a Nazi war criminal trying to save his own skin, there really isn't any reputable evidence for Netanyahu's claims.

That's called "argument from ignorance." There's a whole lot more than one affidavit.

The Mufti himself blocked a Bulgarian plan to release 4000 Jewish children, which Himmler was okay with because they were to get 20,000 German citizens released in return. Romania was going to ship over 70,000 Jews to Palestine but the Mufti angrily intervened and had them sent to Poland, where they could be "watched." He intervened with the Italians, French, and everyone else to make sure no Jews escaped, even in instances where the Nazis were okay with it.

The Mufti and Hitler had a plan whereby Hitler would penetrate the southern Soviet Union and cut off the British, leaving the Mufti free to eliminate all Middle Eastern Jews.

The grand mufti of Jerusalem sure did push Hitler in the wrong direction.

Yeah Hitler was such a nice guy before he met some evil Palestinians.

So because I'm not willing to dismiss Bibi's thesis out of hand out of reflexive Israel-hate, I'm pro-Nazi? Take your Aricept & Namenda dear.

Keep in mind, you are speaking to people who can't conceive of the idea that two people might be evil independently of one another.

Multiple historians disagree. Many agree.

The takeaway from this thread is that you already knew before you clicked on it who would be displaying their anti-Israel bias and exactly what they'd be saying.

Oh, and the denial of a liberal press pro-Pallie agenda is the same as libs ridiculing anyone who dared suggest there was a activist-fueled gay agenda.