Oh now this is just revolting

You're fucking nuts.
Bye.

Because a chicken pot pie is EXACTLY the same as oxygen.

But...but...if I need it...


...how can those monsters say no?!?

Is food any less necessary for life than oxygen?

It's cold-blooded to believe that someone with a chronic medical problem should be acutely aware of their medical problem at all times?

Not really. Electricity does not equal life except in extreme circumstances. Paladin already expressed his thoughts on exceptional circumstances IN HIS VERY FIRST POST. Saying that something is unwise is simply a statement of fact. Fortunately, to the amusement of all, garamet reacts like a retarded pit bull on speed and never bothers to read what people say.

Haven't you ever had a pot pie emergency where if you didn't get a pot pie--specifically the pot pie in the market down the street--you'd start to go into a death knell within a quarter hour?

Sometimes there's no time to apply for food stamps, go get charity, check yourself into a shelter, or even rummage through the garbage: you just have to steal that pot pie and eat it cold or you're dead.

Then her family should have overridden her wishes. Regardless, they are directly responsible for her being dead, even more so than the evil utility company. They chose not to get help, and she died.

There's a moral in there somewhere...

Yes, it's inhumane that the utility company cut her off. But that's hardly the same thing as her direct blood relations not getting her the help she needed.

You know what I would have done?

Walked to my next door neighbor and asked them if I could plug in until we got the issue resolved. Because if I didn't I'd die.

Interesting that the woman was out of work, and her husband reduced his hours significantly in order to take care of her. Of course, she had several teenage children, including an 18 year old. I think I might have either put them to work or make them stay home to take care of mama while Daddy paid the bills. So you know, she'd survive.

Lots of stupidity here. Yes, it's mercenary of the utility company, and I'd have no problem with regulation stating that if cutting off the power is directly going to lead to killing somone, then they can't cut off the power.

But it's also true that these people sure helped the process of killing the mother along the way.

Here's the moral of the story:

If you have a life-threatening condition that depends on the use of an electrically driven oxygen generator to survive, you'd best pay your fucking electrical bill.

Oh, and about every post of Paladin's in this thread deserves rep. Garamet, on the other hand, needs a fuckin' rabies shot.

Having dealt with a few ambulance-related emergency situations, I'm wondering what the timeframe was here.

Did they leave her gasping for air for hours? Days? Or a matter of minutes, while they sorted through generations of conditioning and said, "Fuck it, let's call an ambulance?"

Ever been in an emergency situation? Of course you have. You're one of the few grownups in this thread. Remember how time telescopes, and some things become incredibly lucid, but you castigate yourself for weeks about some minor thing that you should have done better?

Bottom line: The crisis was initiated by the marathon shutting off the power. If he hadn't been such a lockstep just-following-orders, the woman would still be alive.

Paladin's argument is tantamount to "Well, yeah, this runaway truck was coming down the street and she just didn't get out of the way fast enough. She should have known trucks go out of control and prepared for it."

Sure they are.

There is a difference between choosing or otherwise being to blame for a medical condition and taking responsibility for what that medical condition requires of you if you are in fact faced with the reality of it.

TB guy didn't choose to have TB.

It's not his fault (or so I would assume) that he contracted TB.

But since he has TB, he has to take certain responsibilities since he in fact now has TB. Your second sentence even alludes to one of them...

As opposed to cutting your income by 3/4 because the wife couldn't work, and the husband drastically reduced his salary in order to stay home with her. Let the 18 year old do that, and pay your fucking electric bill.

Then when she started to die she told them not to get an ambulance?

Ignorance has a huge price. In this case, it was someone's life.

Yes, evil capitalistic utility company. But god-damned there were tons of ways this family could have saved her life, and every time they chose the wrong path.

More like...

If you lay down in the street and leave it up to everyone else to avoid hitting you, you have no room to complain when someone runs you over.

Oh I agree that the family is too stupid to live. Apparently literally, in mom's case. It's a cruel world. Garamet can cry all she wants about the woman not 'deserving' to die. It ain't about what you deserve- at least for those of us who live in the real world.

Since you're still to blinded by hippie rage to read all of Paladin's first post, I'll simply repost it here. That way you can stop making shit up and tarnishing your own integrity.

From the article, it indicates it was 2 hours from the time the power was turned off until the time they found her dead. That seems like plenty of time to me to decide to call for help.

Partially true (though the marathon shutting off the power? LOL). But also true is they could have handled their finances in a way that allowed them to pay their bills, which they certainly should have done. The father drastically reduced his hours at the only job they had left to take care of her, and in addition didn't explain to his employer that he was doing so because of a family medical emergency. Not smart.

Well, not sure that's his argument exactly, but understanding you need to make enough money to pay your electric bill is a pretty basic understanding in this situation. And then for the woman to refuse to get medical help she needed. Yeah, that is more akin to laying in the middle of the highway hoping everyone else sees you in time to break.

The evil utility company could have been evil yet this woman still should be alive if they did a few basic things.

Again, I would be for legislsation saying you can't cut off electricity to someone who needs it for life support purposes immediately (perhaps give them 6 months to find alternative arrangements), but then I'm not a libertarian. Hell, it makes sense fiscally, as dead people can't pay their bills. It's also the right thing to do.

But the utility company being the utility company isnt' the only part of the story here. These people were damn stupid, and that's just as big a reason as why the woman died.

I notice not one of you has had the balls to vote what you claim to believe.

Well, Midnight, these are the Americans you idolize.

They're not horrified at all. They can explain to you down to the last decimal point how this woman deserved to die.

Yet they won't vote for the first option, because it might go on their permanent record.

Pardon me while I go sink my teeth into Marso's ankle.

Your bullshit is so old and tired. You still haven't said what you think should have happened here. All you can do is misrepresent others arguments to make yourself feel good. How sad. How predictable.

I'd say this situation featured a pair of incidents that served to catalyze each other in the exposure of two problems. The inability to pay that the family faced pointed out a potential procedural problem at the power company, and the power being cut by the power company pointed out the general ineptitude of this woman's family regarding the home care she was getting from them.

Capitalism was at best a peripheral variable here...hardly worth choosing the option hand-crafted around it.

Yeah, I forgot to vote in the poll. Corrected now.

None of the poll options expressed my opinion, so I voted 'other.'

Okay...

I am someone who can actually speak about this sort of thing with some authority since I live on oxygen 24/7/365.

There is some very fishy things going on in this story.

First, I have serious doubts that disconnecting the concentrator directly caused her death. Someone who is that dependant on oxygen is not sent home. You must be able to survive off the machine before you are sent home. Otherwise, you will be hospitalized until you can survive off the machine.

If you have a concentrator, you will also have what is called an M tank...it is an oxygen tank that is about three feet tall that is underpressure and needs no power..it lasts about 24 hours at 2L.

You also will be provided with some means of portable oxygen. In my case, E-tanks. I generally have about 20 of these here at any given time. My needs fluctuate depending on many factors and sometimes I go through them quickly and sometimes they last.

Once I needed medical equipment, I immediately notified my electric company, once I provided a doctor's note proving I had life support equipment they came here and put a sign on my meter with a do not disconnect-Life Support notice on it, as well as a large red cross sticker on the transformer serving my home. I also will get called in advance of any planned power outages.

I don't know how they didn't have any form of back up methods in case of power outage, I don't know how an O2 company would have set her up or a hospital even release her if she was that dependant on O2. It makes no sense.

I suspect there will be a different cause of death. Most likely the O2 loss and the stress of the situation contributed to it or made it worse, but I doubt it was the only reason.

Still...I would be shocked if it was company policy to pull the plug no matter what. I suspect an incompetent employee and either ignorance, they didn't know or incomplete records. Especially since I read in another article that the company turned the power back on once they heard about her death.

It is also possible this is some kind of shenanigans and the family is going to try and cash in. A lot of the details just don't fit.

http://www.amazon.com/Contractor-Po...87-7940938?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1180670605&sr=8-2

$100 generator. Probably not the right kind, but the price seems low enough. I'm guessing here.

Ask the kids' school(s) to do a carwash or bake sale to earn money for the generator.

If their school is poor, go around town - send the 18 year old out for jobs, or out to charities to ask for help. Contact utility company when payment problems arise. Inform utility company of mother's disability and ask for a deferred payment plan or advice on ways to cut energy spending or some sort of help.

My post jumps from point to point sporadically now, but bear with me:

I agree that since her life depended on continuous power, she needed to have a generator.
However, hindsight's 20-20. It's easy to look back and say all these things. But people often assume they'll never get hurt, or that since something bad happened to them, it just can't get any worse.
Power outages don't normally last more than a minute, they tell themselves. Maybe next month's bill will be lower.
They make excuses or don't think about the bad things, until something horrible happens. Then they know what should have been done.

Happens to all of us.

Yes, the woman's family was responsible for finding a better way to care for her. Having an 18 year old kid is a huge help. Sure, it puts strain on the kid, but bills have to be paid to keep mommy alive, so the 18 year old has to pitch in.

The power company could have just as easily cut power without sending someone over. Happens all the time. If they didn't tell the power company what was going on, and the power company had simply cut the power, TOUGH LUCK. The employee they sent over, IMO, is a heartless bastard. And he should have contacted his superiors (just like Paladin said).

The only way the family could win a lawsuit is by saying there was no notice about cutting power. The article said there wasn't.

Really makes me wonder why they didn't do that.

RE: TKO's link to the $100 generator.

Geez, that one looks bigger and nicer than the $1200 piece of shit my old man got 5 years ago and that he's always too lazy too hook up even during an apocalypse.

To answer the hospital question, hospitals, at least in america where they can afford it have emergency back up generators to kick in for a few hours should the main power go out. Then they try to move their patients to a better location.

the hospital question was mostly rhetorical, but by all means have at

UNH!!

Thanks for the insight on oxygen use, and I agree there are a lot of gaps in the story. Because this happened in NZ and not in the States, regulations may be different or, as you say, this may be the case of one mean-spirited employee.

I do know here in earthquake country, there are places where people at risk - folks who need oxygen, the wheelchair-bound, diabetics, the frail elderly, etc. - can sign up for priority restoration service if the power goes out. And AFAIK, no one at SoCal Ed would turn off the power on someone on those lists the way this was done.

Wordforgers' reactions to the story, to a large extent, bordered on parody.