Rich, Black, and Flunking..

Nobody is 'determined' to put the AA down. I say this because I have seen a lot of African students come here and make something of themselves through hard work and determination.

They can travel thousands of miles to come to the Land of Opportunity, yet the ones born here are thugging it out.

Sad, really.

At the risk of sounding glib, how does "never" sound to you? Because as long as whites blame minorities for being oppressed, "never" is the time when minorities will cease blaming whites for their actions. Not every white person is guilty of oppression -- far from it. But just look at the attitudes in this thread. Just look at the resentment created by the purported prevalence of so-called "reverse discrimination." Virtually at the same time that civil rights laws were passed, Establishment powers moved immediately to limit their effect or deny their intended benefits.

In the South, civil rights laws of the mid-1960's were stymied at every turn until federal courts, at their own majestic pace, were forced to intervene. Executive action such as the federalization of the National Guard to protect minorities and enforce federal law was rarer than hen's teeth. Aggressive initiatives in the enforcement of civil rights acts begun under Kennedy soon diminished in the 1970's under Nixon, right up through the period of catastrophic neglect initiated by Reagan and the first Bush. It was primarily during Democratic interludes -- Carter and Clinton -- that substantial progress made.

In the meantime, the resentment of conservative whites was driven through demagogic radio hosts who acted as though social development had advanced unimpeded for forty years. As a point of fact, it was on comparatively rare occasions that it progressed for more than four years at a time; it is hardly disputed that during the Reagan and Bush Administrations, civil rights enforcement had declined to particularly atrocious levels.

It is also startling to realize that little more than a decade went by since the mid-1960's before Bakke and related Supreme Court decisions began gouging the lifeforce from civil rights statutes -- turning antidiscrimination laws into battles not for minorities, but for whites.

The idea that steady progress was permitted in the last four decades on behalf of minorities is nothing more than a convenient myth and the rationalization of increasing impatience and willful moral blindness to the ills of society on the part of those most able to cure them, if only they would remember why.

Here's a few articles on Bill Cosby for you:

http://www.talkaboutthemusic.com/group/alt.rap/messages/278856.html

http://blackvoices.aol.com/black_ne...nvas/_a/uncle-toms-cabin/20060217101009990001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_cosby

http://www.hofmag.com/content/view/122/115/

Well I guess I better start complaining about my ancestors being discriminated against as well. Do you how hard it must have been to have gotten off the boats and tried looking for work and found signs saying "No dogs or Irish allowed"? It scarred hem so much that they went out of their way to contribute to this country and earn respect. My ancestors knew education was the key and they weren't going to let their kids be jobless drunks like they were in the old country.

Two generations ago, blacks marched against dogs and firehoses so they could send their kids to schools. A generation ago, blacks demanded that they be allowed to go to schools in white neighborhoods via busing. This generation has a 50% dropout rate. That's not Whitey's fault.

You frame the issue to exclude the fault of anyone but blacks themselves. But things are never as simple as that.

We might stipulate that it is not solely whites that are at fault for some of the problems of blacks. But why is it so inviting to concentrate on that small part of the "big picture" when it is the Establishment at large that is far more responsible for the oppressions of disfavored classes, races, and other groups?

Don't you see what has happened here? The rich, the powerful, and the manipulative have succeeded in turning ordinary citizens against one another. Whites whose eyes were once opened to the injustices of their time are misled to believe that such injustices no longer matter. In like manner, the rich and the powerful sell the fake ideology, the false consciousness, of self-empowerment when in fact it is they who hold all the strings.

I hate to break it to you, but many whites are no better off than the poorest blacks: The difference is only a paycheck, and then their mortgage is in default. Their life savings are immediately devastated by a catastrophic illness for which their insurer will refuse to pay. The common people -- you, me, and virtually everyone else reading this board -- are at the mercy of concentrated capital with a financial and political deathgrip over the major centers of power within both political parties.

Every article that blames minorities for their problems distracts attention from the puppeteers by diverting attention away from the existence of those who truly control the world. The attribution of fault to those who suffer the most is unbecoming anyone who has seen far beyond the facade offered by Establishment elites, and might I say that it still less behooves the intelligent readers who patronize this board.

And here's two on Obama:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/01/22/obama/index_np.html
'Colorblind
Barack Obama would be the great black hope in the next presidential race -- if he were actually black.'
http://vista.alexa.com/cgi-bin/doca...DKOTy5KLM8xMtMDKtJLr1LLT0srTi2xNTIxtTQzsjQCAA
'Why Obama isn't black like me'

As Megatron said, blacks (and immigrants from other countries too) who are grateful to be here do very well. Being a recently retired soldier, I can tell you the Army is chock-full of "straight out of Africa" blacks who barely know English when they join. Within a few years they are NCO's or Officers with degrees (probably in English!)


Now the other side of the coin. The schools in my county average about 20 percent black. In my daughter's summer-school class she is the only white. So, her class is 95 percent black. This would mean blacks are attending remedial summer school at 5 times the rate of whites (at least in this case.) Very few people are poor in my county.

So, what is the solution to rich black kids flunking? It seems to be not associating performing well academically with "acting white."
2 +2 = 4 doesn't care about race or color IMO. Knowledge is knowledge.

In my own experience, there's some truth to that. For a few weeks in middle school, there were a couple of black girls who gave me a hard time because I could speak comprehensible English and had tastes in music and other activities that were pretty unusual for any teenager, much less a black kid.

Even before that in the elementary school I attended (which is now majority Hispanic), teachers seemed to me amazed that I could read at or above my grade level.But the fact is, the rest of the kids were just that stupid and I remember spending a lot of time going over long division every year from third grade to fifth. I got it down pretty damn well the first time around. Wow. That's amazing to be able to retain something I've been taught THREE YEARS IN A ROW.

One incident that sticks out in my mind in particular was when I signed up for beginning band in grade five and was given a songflute/music theory test to see if I would be allowed to borrow a clarinet through the school district. The music teacher who graded it actually called my mom to say that never since she'd been a teacher in my town had she seen a kid from my elementary school get a perfect score on this thing.

So Anna, you are saying that you received the strange behaviour about your comprehensions because you were a teenager/youngster per se, or do you think it was racial bias?

^
At the elementary level, I do think racial biased played a part. As I said, this school didn't have very many kids that did as well as I apparently did in such courses like math and science. A good number of the student body didn't even speak English.

I really don't think I was all *that* much smarter the the average bear, since I didn't even qualify for taking Algebra during eighth grade years (in California, kids usually don't take it until grade nine).

Wait... what?



There are non-English-speaking schools.

In AMERICA?



Edit: I'll be clearer, in other non-English speaking countries we have several different form of schools (specially India, where there are over 200 languages apparently!) that cater to the mother tongue that you use. Is that the same case here?

Tyranny of the majority, tyranny of the minority.

Kind of. This particular school was the first in our district to have Spanish emmerison classes for those students that are native Spanish speakers. They are taught in both English and Spanish, which helps the kids learn more English. They also allow non-Spanish speaking kids to enroll during Kindergarten and first grade so that they can learn Spanish, if the parent so chooses. And in a neighborhood that is heavily Hispanic, it makes sense.

Thanks, but not one of those articles contains a black person saying, "I think Bill Cosby is an Uncle Tom for making these comments."

The first one quotes black columnist Leonard Pitts saying that Cosby isn't an uncle Tom in reaction to a question that presupposes that some people feel he was.

The Black Voices one presupposes that some people feel he was and then looks at the origin of the term "Uncle Tom."

The Wikipedia one even notes that he got praise from Jesse Jackson for his comments.

The Juan Williams one says that the people in the Bill Cosby audience laughed and stomped their feet. It does say that none of the black advocacy groups helped him spread his message about teen pregnancy (which is probably untrue, but that's another argument altogether), but it contains nothing about people attacking Cosby as a Tom.

I'm sure there may be people in the black community who feel like Cosby is an Uncle Tom in general or specifically for making these comments. But if the sentiment were as widespread as people claim it is, it surely would be easier to find someone to actually say it publicly.

As for the Obama articles, both aren't so much concerned with his skin color as his cultural heritage. They make the argument that he isn't culturally black because he's the child of an African and thus doesn't have to deal with the same burdens as American blacks. Leaving that aside, the author of the Salon article hypothesizes blacks will embrace Obama. None argue that he's too light-skinned to be embraced by blacks.

So all these links you've provided seem irrelevant to the case you've made.

I don't understand why Cosby would be considered an Uncle Tom just for telling black people to look to themselves for the cause of and solution to their problems. It makes blacks responsible instead of victims. Do people just not want to be the captains of their own fate?

If I succeed, it's because of me. If I fail, it's because of me.

I've done that all the time, and Mewa thinks I'm not in touch with my roots for doing so.

Mewa is more of a "success" than many of us in WF. It sounds like he's stirring the pudding to rile you up.

I'm not black, I'm a west Indian mut. I did grow up in mostly black or hispanic neighborhoods though. I think the biggest problem with the black community is their disrespect for authority figures in general, not just whites. A lot of black adults look at authority figures whether they're cops or politicians or teachers with distrust and that filters down to the kids. You don't trust your teachers so when you fail it's because she doesn't like you... this I saw a lot of growing up. To jamaicans talking back to your teacher is unheard of but I saw it all the time with the black students. If I had ever spoken back to a teacher I would of been beaten by my mother, my father, my grandparents, and then they would of dragged me to school and offer my teacher a go. Respect if lacking amongst the black population, respect for themselves, for their peers, community, public officials, you keep treating everyone like the enemy and eventually they will be.

^


Good post there.

Lt. Mewa is indeed one the wisest and sanest posters I've seen around these parts. Don't let his sardonic style fool you.

Sure he is.

But what are the issues that prevail for which the parents and elders have that mindset? Is it the imbalance that was in the years past or are there other factors that can be counted?

Good post.

I certainly agree that the appropriate attitude may assist in educational achievement. The question is whether large numbers of blacks in America have an excess of the so-called "wrong" attitude, and if so, why it is necessarily their fault.

Well I was wondering when we would have an angry white guy " stop blaming me post" we haven't had one in a while.

I will respond to a couple of things.
1. Herbalist you are really pissing me off with your " I'm not one of THOSE black people" act. My family has been in the US since before the Revolutionary war, I had family that fought in it, we're about as American as you can get. We are also black people. I don't buy your it's just the sons of slaves that are inferior argument not people who emigrated after that whole messy slavery thing. It's as bad as our African ancestors who sold us into servitude over some tribal disputes.
My family has been very successful, well educated, and successful in the community and country for generations.

That said, the research in this article is suspect. There are issues with academic success and "acting white" in the black community. I think this is a relatively new phenomena, and as I've argued before I think it is a result of the corporate and media success of the more sordid aspects of hip hop culture, rather than something inherent to black culture.

And a note on the "is Obama black enough" I think that argument has only been made by a few pundits and waaaaay out there academics, it's not a common argument in the black community.

Any on him being a sexual predator who puts roofies in the pudding?

I am not White?



And the article was interesting to me so I wanted to share it here and let others discuss it. What's the harm in that?

It's not an act.

I have an American passport so I am now an American as well. *I* have the ability to say that I am India/American. But why do you, being perhaps 6th or 7th generation, still classify yourself as 'Black'? Shouldn't 'American' be sufficient?

Is that why you only associate with White people?

I'm not black at least not entirely. It's a common misconception around here. If you want to know the truth I'm more chinese than anything but I look more indian than chinese. I have black in me but the most dominate is chinese since both my parents are part chinese.

Never said you were inferior and most jamaicans are decedants of slaves.

I'm sure hip hop culture plays it's roll but mostly I put the blame on the parents. They are the ones who's job it is to raise their kids to want to be successful, respectful and educated. Why do a lot of black americans raise their kids to be victims instead? I don't know. Baffles the shit out of me. Lets not blame lack of opportunity or a racist society though because that shifts the blame from where it belongs, in the black community.

Agreed.

Well, that seems an awful lot like blaming the victim for being raped.

Actually, if you were going to go and use the rape analogy, i would say the whole thing is asking how much leeway should the child of a rapebaby be given?

Please don't compare everything to rape.